Trayvon Martin

[Pandemonium]

Wow, look at the comments counter add posts by the hundreds per minute on the CNN article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justi ... ?hpt=hp_t1

[MYXYLPLYX]

a cop posted this on another forum I belong to...pretty good synopsis whether or not you agree with him.

My opinion is this:(snip)

Bottom line? It all could have been avoided with better communication from both Martin and Zimmerman. Zimmerman was confident that he was contacting a suspicious person who had been burglarizing the neighborhood, and Martin was certain he was about to be attacked by a suspicious person following him. Communication would have solved that.

The one significant piece of information ignored in this guy's opinion is that Zimmerman was specifically told by the dispatcher he was in phone contact with not to get out of his car and confront Martin. To me, and I would think anyone with a unbiased, logical approach to this case, that would be the key piece of evidence as to why this confrontation was initiated and how it could have been avoided.

But, self-defense is a very fluid thing - it occurs in a moment. So, what may start as mutual combat becomes self-defense the moment a combatant feels fear for his life... obviously a very vague notion and complicated to nail down.

Zimmerman's actions prior to the altercation are not relevant to a claim of self defense unless he threatened Martin's life first... and there's no evidence of that.

Morally, there is little question that Zimmerman is absolutely responsible for Trayvon's death - legally, it is almost impossible to prove given the circumstances.

It's totally fucked, and one of those times where an imperfect system's flaws glare oh so brightly...

[Romeo]

Florida must get their prosecutors from the graduating class of an online law school.

It's a sad state of affairs when a kid can't walk to the store to buy a snack and make it home alive and some cop wannabe self proclaimed "neighborhood WATCH" can claim "stand your ground" after shooting an unarmed teen.

America, you're beautiful.

[Pandemonium]

I think more black people should take gun classes, become gun owners, organize and implement neighborhood watch "patrols" and let's see how fast certain laws in Florida change.

[MYXYLPLYX]

Florida must get their prosecutors from the graduating class of an online law school.

They committed the cardinal sin = overcharged and under-proved.

I mean, they tried to prove malice aforethought via his statements to the police dispatcher about "fucking punks" and "these assholes always get away."

[Pandemonium]

They committed the cardinal sin = overcharged and under-proved.

I mean, they tried to prove malice aforethought via his statements to the police dispatcher about "fucking punks" and "these assholes always get away."

I agree the prosecution blew this case but the judge gave them a huge gift by allowing the jury to consider the lesser charge of Manslaughter as an option so I don't think "overcharged" factors into this.

[Tyler Durden]

I agree the prosecution blew this case but the judge gave them a huge gift by allowing the jury to consider the lesser charge of Manslaughter as an option so I don't think "overcharged" factors into this.

THIS.

[MYXYLPLYX]

They committed the cardinal sin = overcharged and under-proved.

I mean, they tried to prove malice aforethought via his statements to the police dispatcher about "fucking punks" and "these assholes always get away."

I agree the prosecution blew this case but the judge gave them a huge gift by allowing the jury to consider the lesser charge of Manslaughter as an option so I don't think "overcharged" factors into this.

They wasted time and focus/attention of the jury presenting arguments for murder 2 that couldn't be sustained by the evidence - straining credulity does not win you a jury.

It's certainly open for debate, but I think a prosecution focused on a manslaughter charge could have had a chance at success.

[Moschops]

But, self-defense is a very fluid thing - it occurs in a moment. So, what may start as mutual combat becomes self-defense the moment a combatant feels fear for his life... obviously a very vague notion and complicated to nail down.

I genuinely don't get this - you can start a fist-fight but if you're losing in a confrontation you started you can pull a gun and use it? It's a point that's been made many times before but what happened to Martin's right to 'stand his ground'?

[LJF]

I'm a little surprised at this verdict. I thought that once the judge brought up manslaughter that they would find him guilty of this. In any case where there is one person no longer alive to give their side of the story, how can you prove it isn't self defense. Zimmerman's claim was self-defense, so how do they prove that isn't the case since Martin is dead. But at the same time how can't self defense be used by Martin's team to claim that is why he fought with Zimmerman and that he felt that his life was threatened.

If I'm right the burden of proof was on the prosecution and they didn't prove without a shadow of doubt that Zimmerman didn't act in self defense. But without Martin alive to present his side or a video or someone that clearly saw the entire encounter how do they prove this?

[Essence_Smith]

And so, Trayvon joins a LONG list of young men of color whose killer(s) were not convicted and it's no surprise to me at all... take notice that people are rallying and not rioting...

Also, I think at some point this became the Trayvon Martin trial...

I wish people would get this upset when ANY young man of color is killed by gun violence, trouble maker or not...the numbers are crazy...I don't care if its so called black on black violence or what, I've always felt like black people wait until it's the police or a "white" person responsible to show that they care. It shouldn't matter, and as long as the disproportionate numbers of black kids under 21 keep getting killed people should be this upset and rallying in big numbers...I dunno, not surprised but very disappointed...black life is very cheap...

[Larry B.]

I think more black people should take gun classes, become gun owners, organize and implement neighborhood watch "patrols" and let's see how fast certain laws in Florida change.

I think this post is very important and so true.

The verdict, as disgraceful as it might be for some (hopefully many) of us, it just goes by the law. There's no certainty beyond doubt, despite 80% of the people being certain of what happened, due to common sense.

The point is, laws won't change. If black people start doing what TB posted above, laws would change or would be applied "under a different light." White light, probably.

The "democratic system" most Western countries live in is a very well oiled machine... if people protest because of the verdict, there are laws that can be applied against them. They can also be left to protest, to "exert their democratic rights," until they get a bit too annoying for their taste. And no laws will change.

Even if the entire population of the US could avoid race being a factor of judgement, the guys at the top will still be. And they have make the laws that protect them. It's disgusting.

[chaos]

Oh the irony.

[Romeo]

They committed the cardinal sin = overcharged and under-proved.

I mean, they tried to prove malice aforethought via his statements to the police dispatcher about "fucking punks" and "these assholes always get away."

I agree the prosecution blew this case but the judge gave them a huge gift by allowing the jury to consider the lesser charge of Manslaughter as an option so I don't think "overcharged" factors into this.

They wasted time and focus/attention of the jury presenting arguments for murder 2 that couldn't be sustained by the evidence - straining credulity does not win you a jury.

It's certainly open for debate, but I think a prosecution focused on a manslaughter charge could have had a chance at success.

agreed!

[ellis]

I am not the least bit surprised Mr. Zimmerman was found Not Guilty. It was the right decision by the jury based on all of the evidence of the case. Justice is a process, not an outcome. I feel horrible for the Martin family and their loss. And I feel horrible for what the Zimmerman family has gone through with the media lynching. It is inevitable that there will be a civil case brought against Mr. Zimmerman for wrongful death so this story is not over just yet.

I did not pay much attention to any of this case from the day it exploded in Feb/Mar 2012. About a month ago, I began giving it attention. Now please forgive the source (FoxNews) being that it's the only interview he participated in, but last week I watched the interview of Zimmerman on Hannity which took place during the summer of 2012. Go ahead and watch it if you have not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaua8aAUpOs ...Nothing about Zimmerman's story or demeanor came across to me as being a bigot or racist. In fact, everything I've read about the case indicates the opposite. If Zimmerman is white then so is Obama.

[Tyler Durden]

I am not the least bit surprised Mr. Zimmerman was found Not Guilty. It was the right decision by the jury based on all of the evidence of the case. Justice is a process, not an outcome. I feel horrible for the Martin family and their loss. And I feel horrible for what the Zimmerman family has gone through with the media lynching. It is inevitable that there will be a civil case brought against Mr. Zimmerman for wrongful death so this story is not over just yet.

It's DEFINITELY not over. The department of justice is going to be looking into it to see if Zimmerman can be tried for violating civil rights.

I did not pay much attention to any of this case from the day it exploded in Feb/Mar 2012. About a month ago, I began giving it attention. Now please forgive the source (FoxNews) being that it's the only interview he participated in, but last week I watched the interview of Zimmerman on Hannity which took place during the summer of 2012. Go ahead and watch it if you have not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaua8aAUpOs ...Nothing about Zimmerman's story or demeanor came across to me as being a bigot or racist. In fact, everything I've read about the case indicates the opposite. If Zimmerman is white then so is Obama.

It sounds like you are implying only whites can be racist with your last comment.

I don't think Zimmerman is a racist/bigot, per se. But he did profile Trayvon Martin (based on race, among other things). He's definitely an incompetent fool, at the very least...in other words, someone who should have his right to bear arms taken away.

[ellis]

It sounds like you are implying only whites can be racist with your last comment.

I don't think Zimmerman is a racist/bigot, per se. But he did profile Trayvon Martin (based on race, among other things). He's definitely an incompetent fool, at the very least...in other words, someone who should have his right to bear arms taken away.

In the video link of my first post, Mr. Zimmerman gives his full account as to why Mr. Martin caught his attention. He gave the same account to the cops numerous times, including on video as he walked them through the incident on site. He gave the same account on a voice stress anaylsis.

I point out his race vs Obama's b/c I agree that had Zimmerman been black, no one would have even heard this story in the national news. Obama is not black--he's white and black and identifies with the black community. Zimmerman is not Latino--He is white and Latino and identifies best with the latino community. The news wanted him to be white so bad! And as all that "kill whitey" hysteria began to fall apart, the damage was already done. The momentum was already there and the story became a monster all its own. Since Zimmerman wasn't white, then it had to be the cops and politicians who were oppressing Mr. Martin. And that wasn't enough, the FBI was oppressing him. Eric Holder has already said there's insufficient evidence to bring forth a civil rights case and I'm sure even he'll be accused of oppressing Mr. Martin.

The whole thing is so tragic for all parties involved. I think the few good things that will come out of this is... there will be a strong movement for an automatic arrest in all incidents involving a gun--whether someone dies, is injured, or nothing at all (missed shots or warning shots, etc). I've often wondered why, if the black community dislikes law enforcement so much, why don't they have a movement to become cops? I say this b/c one o the greatest things about Thurgood Marshall and the many men who became lawyers in his time was that their greatest weapon was knowing the laws better than the men who wrote them.

[Tyler Durden]

In the video link of my first post, Mr. Zimmerman gives his full account as to why Mr. Martin caught his attention. He gave the same account to the cops numerous times, including on video as he walked them through the incident on site. He gave the same account on a voice stress anaylsis.

I saw all of that stuff when it first aired or was released. Zimmerman's reason for Martin catching his attention is a fucking joke. You're not allowed to "look about"? You're not allowed to "walk slow"? How is a black man in America supposed to walk? If a black man is running, it's assumed he just did something illegal and is running from the scene. If a black man is walking slowly, it's assumed he is about to do something illegal. WTF?!

I point out his race vs Obama's b/c I agree that had Zimmerman been black, no one would have even heard this story in the national news. Obama is not black--he's white and black and identifies with the black community. Zimmerman is not Latino--He is white and Latino and identifies best with the latino community. The news wanted him to be white so bad! And as all that "kill whitey" hysteria began to fall apart, the damage was already done. The momentum was already there and the story became a monster all its own. Since Zimmerman wasn't white, then it had to be the cops and politicians who were oppressing Mr. Martin. And that wasn't enough, the FBI was oppressing him. Eric Holder has already said there's insufficient evidence to bring forth a civil rights case and I'm sure even he'll be accused of oppressing Mr. Martin.

If Zimmerman had been black, he would have been arrested IMMEDIATELY...or shot dead. The media outrage wasn't because they looked at him as "white" or wanted him to be...it was because he profiled, followed and shot an unarmed minor who wasn't doing anything (until a confrontation came about)...and then to top it off, Zimmerman was allowed to go home that night and wasn't arrested for 2.5 months. That's where the outrage came from...not because he was half white or appeared "white".

[Tyler Durden]

[Tyler Durden]

[clickie]

What do you guys want them to do? best 2 outta 3 trials or something? These were 6 female jurors, all mothers, and a couple of them were black I think. You guys wouldve came to the same verdict if you were on that jury and heard all the evidence.

[Pandemonium]

I saw all of that stuff when it first aired or was released. Zimmerman's reason for Martin catching his attention is a fucking joke. You're not allowed to "look about"? You're not allowed to "walk slow"? How is a black man in America supposed to walk? If a black man is running, it's assumed he just did something illegal and is running from the scene. If a black man is walking slowly, it's assumed he is about to do something illegal. WTF?!

To be fair here, you have to factor in the whole backstory of the previous recent burglaries in that apartment complex and the one suspect who was black wearing a hoodie who was caught with his pal escaping which is what instigated the apt complex "letting" Zimmerman become their neighborhood watch guy. Add to that, it seemed pretty clear in the 311 call Zimmerman made that at least at first he wasn't even sure of the ethnicity of the guy he was following. White guys wear hoodies too.

Where Zimmerman fucked up and (should) bear responsibility for his actions is getting out of his car after being essentially told by the dispatcher to wait for cops to arrive.

[Pandemonium]

What do you guys want them to do? best 2 outta 3 trials or something?

Talk to Obama, Holder and The Justice Dept. There's talk the Feds might try Zimmerman on a race hate charge which would not only be virtually unwinnable, a waste of time and money, but blatantly politically motivated and further ratchet up racial tensions. Of any "race" sensitive case, this is one the Federal government should keep their nose out of and their opinions to themselves.

You guys wouldve came to the same verdict if you were on that jury and heard all the evidence.

Probably, considering how the case was presented and what evidence was allowed (and not allowed), but that doesn't mean it would have been the right verdict. Still, even though it's done, it still doesn't mean we can't discuss it, can we?

[Juana]

Zimmerman is a wife beating (fiance technically), cop fighting, cousin molesting coward who got away with killing a kid because he killed the only other witness to his crime. The backwards ass laws in parts of this country make it to where the dead have to prove why they shouldn't be dead.

I'm just wondering when Zimmerman gets offed if his arrogant trash of family are going to be hitting the media circuit with such smugness. Cause make no mistake they're having fun in the spot light but when someone hunts him down and "feels threatened" cause we know he is packing now, and someone makes him suck start a .45, I wonder if they will think back to the choice that Zimmerman made to ignore the dispatchers directives.

Because when he is killed, I for one will think "welp shoulda stayed in the car" just like I'm thinking now.

[clickie]

Zimmerman is a wife beating (fiance technically), cop fighting, cousin molesting coward who got away with killing a kid because he killed the only other witness to his crime. The backwards ass laws in parts of this country make it to where the dead have to prove why they shouldn't be dead.

I'm just wondering when Zimmerman gets offed if his arrogant trash of family are going to be hitting the media circuit with such smugness. Cause make no mistake they're having fun in the spot light but when someone hunts him down and "feels threatened" cause we know he is packing now, and someone makes him suck start a .45, I wonder if they will think back to the choice that Zimmerman made to ignore the dispatchers directives.

Because when he is killed, I for one will think "welp shoulda stayed in the car" just like I'm thinking now.

You sound like a lot of district attorneys who have the attitude of so what if he didnt commit this crime, I bet he did at one time in his past so it all evens out.