The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

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Larry B.
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The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#1 Post by Larry B. » Tue May 08, 2012 1:53 pm

http://chronicle.com/article/From-Gradu ... to/131795/

from Boing Boing
"I am not a welfare queen," says Melissa Bruninga-Matteau.

That's how she feels compelled to start a conversation about how she, a white woman with a Ph.D. in medieval history and an adjunct professor, came to rely on food stamps and Medicaid. Ms. Bruninga-Matteau, a 43-year-old single mother who teaches two humanities courses at Yavapai College, in Prescott, Ariz., says the stereotype of the people receiving such aid does not reflect reality. Recipients include growing numbers of people like her, the highly educated, whose advanced degrees have not insulated them from financial hardship.

"I find it horrifying that someone who stands in front of college classes and teaches is on welfare," she says.

(...)

"The media gives us this image that people who are on public assistance are dropouts, on drugs or alcohol, and are irresponsible," she says. "I'm not irresponsible. I'm highly educated. I have a whole lot of skills besides knowing about medieval history, and I've had other jobs. I've never made a lot of money, but I've been able to make enough to live on. Until now."

(...)

Of the 22 million Americans with master's degrees or higher in 2010, about 360,000 were receiving some kind of public assistance, according to the latest Current Population Survey released by the U.S. Census Bureau in March 2011. In 2010, a total of 44 million people nationally received food stamps or some other form of public aid, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

People who don't finish college are more likely to receive food stamps than are those who go to graduate school. The rolls of people on public assistance are dominated by people with less education. Nevertheless, the percentage of graduate-degree holders who receive food stamps or some other aid more than doubled between 2007 and 2010.

(...)

Ms. Kelsky, who helps graduate students and adjuncts who are homeless or on aid, says the false portrayal of aid recipients as "welfare queens" is an illusion that was created for political purposes.

"Racializing food stamps denies that wide swaths of the population, reaching into the middle classes, are dealing with food insecurity," she says.

Thirty-nine percent of all welfare recipients are white, 37 percent are black, 17 percent are Hispanic, and 3 percent are Asian, according to data from Aid to Families With Dependent Children. The majority of the dozens of graduate-degree holders on aid who responded to The Chronicle questionnaire are also white.

But race and cultural stereotypes play a significant part in how many of the academics interviewed by The Chronicle are struggling with the reality of being on welfare.

Lynn, a 43-year-old adjunct professor at two community colleges in Houston, who is on food stamps and Medicaid and doesn't want to give her surname, says, "People don't expect that white people need assistance," she says. "It's a prevalent attitude. Applying for food stamps is even worse if you're white and need help."
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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#2 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 6:03 pm

Dude... wait...
a 43-year-old single mother who teaches two humanities courses at Yavapai College, in Prescott, Ariz.,
There's your problem. Adjuncts get paid (really poorly) per course (from what I gather, up here it's around $3,000 per course, which is actually less money than a teaching assistantship, which adjuncts often take on to get more money), and generally don't publish at the volume tenure-track profs do. (High volume of publications = easier to put a bunch of essays into a textbook and make some money.)

This isn't the same thing as "PhDs" now coming with foodstamps. If you suck, you shouldn't go to grad school in the first place. :no:

If you end up an adjunct, you should probably have a full-time job on top of the one or two courses you teach per semester/year.

This type of article is like saying "Musicians and other artists now living in their cars and starving." Of course lots of them are. They suck. :nod:

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#3 Post by Larry B. » Tue May 08, 2012 8:54 pm

I know...

But it's logical to assume that there's something wrong with a society and/or an educational system when "those who know the most" about something must resort to food stamps, right?

Schools and colleges as a business are ruining capitalistic societies. Originally, you went to school in order to obtain qualifications to get certain jobs. Then, you went to college, which would almost guarantee you a better job. Then, a Masters, then a PhD. Probably many other things in between. Now, schools and colleges basically sell their certificates, which are worthless because there isn't enough market for 4M people with PhDs.

I know a guy who has 2 PhDs. He makes like 20% more than what I earn. And I don't even have a Bachelor in some shit. And, what's more important, he doesn't even use the knowledge he obtained on those PhDs for his work. He works in something totally unrelated.

It's probably a combination of people taking a PhD course for no specific reason, too many people taking PhD programs, too few positions, etc.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#4 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 9:03 pm

There is a genuine problem in Academia that contributes to PhDs not being put to good use, which is the increasingly corporate University system, in which the top administrators are not educators, but economics-driven financial analysts. They have successfully waged war on the arts and pushed for the idea that universities are about "innovation" and "development of new technology" alone, and that these things are only worth funding if they have an obvious payoff (i.e., if private enterprise will contribute $$$$ to a department). This has led to massive cuts in many departments. The worst of it is that the baby boomers are almost all still teaching, and they have most of the tenured/tenure-track positions. The gen-Xers have managed to grab tenure-track positions before the administrations started eliminating these positions. A lot of tenured profs are going to start retiring, and no replacements will be hired. Instead, they are relying more and more on these adjunct/sessional/contract faculty, because there are a ton of them. It does not bode well. The only way to avoid a LIKELY fate as an adjunct is to have lucked out and got into a top 5 school for your field (or just the Ivy League [NYU and Rutgers are the top schools for philosophy though]). The rest of us are just trying to beat the odds. :jasper:

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#5 Post by creep » Tue May 08, 2012 9:06 pm

Larry B. wrote:I know...

But it's logical to assume that there's something wrong with a society and/or an educational system when "those who know the most" about something must resort to food stamps, right?

Schools and colleges as a business are ruining capitalistic societies. Originally, you went to school in order to obtain qualifications to get certain jobs. Then, you went to college, which would almost guarantee you a better job. Then, a Masters, then a PhD. Probably many other things in between. Now, schools and colleges basically sell their certificates, which are worthless because there isn't enough market for 4M people with PhDs.

I know a guy who has 2 PhDs. He makes like 20% more than what I earn. And I don't even have a Bachelor in some shit. And, what's more important, he doesn't even use the knowledge he obtained on those PhDs for his work. He works in something totally unrelated.

It's probably a combination of people taking a PhD course for no specific reason, too many people taking PhD programs, too few positions, etc.
one big problem is the cost of these degrees. when i started college it was $328 a semester. it is now $1700 and compared to 99% of the schools that is still a bargain. you can borrow $138,000 in student loans for a graduate degree. that is a shitload of debt to start off with.

that story also never mentions what percentage of graduates are on govt assistance just the overall number. are there more people graduating with these degrees now? also govt assistance does not mean they are on food stamps. it could be some other sort of assistance.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#6 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 9:11 pm

As I said in another thread, you should never pay for a graduate degree, unless it's a professional degree (these don't usually offer automatic funding) that has a huge, obvious payoff at the end (lawyer, MBA, engineering, basically).

The other graduate degrees should only be done if you're given funding by the university. And there are external grant agencies. If you're good enough, you should be able to get one of those at some point (I have fucked up undergraduate grades and I'm currently in the running for +$15k for next year... and probably will get it for sure next year). I don't know how the scholarship stuff works in the States. I do know that Yale, for example, gives you something like $26,000 per year automatically if you get into their Philosophy PhD program.

That's poverty-level if you've got kids and a spouse and a house and a car, though.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#7 Post by farrellgirl99 » Tue May 08, 2012 9:17 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:As I said in another thread, you should never pay for a graduate degree, unless it's a professional degree (these don't usually offer automatic funding) that has a huge, obvious payoff at the end (lawyer, MBA, engineering, basically).

The other graduate degrees should only be done if you're given funding by the university. And there are external grant agencies. If you're good enough, you should be able to get one of those at some point (I have fucked up undergraduate grades and I'm currently in the running for +$15k for next year... and probably will get it for sure next year). I don't know how the scholarship stuff works in the States. I do know that Yale, for example, gives you something like $26,000 per year automatically if you get into their Philosophy PhD program.

That's poverty-level if you've got kids and a spouse and a house and a car, though.
I'm saying this with absolutely no research backing me up, but from what I've heard/know almost no graduate schools give out scholarships. You really need to get a grant or fellowship to get any kind of decent money or apply to a special fellowship/graduate program (Standford for example has a poetry program where they give you a 26k stipend to attend because you're not allowed to hold a job while you're going to school there). This is what I know from the people I know in graduate school/applying to graduate school so I could be wrong across a broader spectrum. The federal govt also doesn't want to pay for graduate school so pell grants are not readily available and you need to take out more loans.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#8 Post by creep » Tue May 08, 2012 9:22 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:I have fucked up undergraduate grades
that surprises me. do you have a hard time with certain subjects or was it a lack of effort?

i graduated with a really bad gpa (2.5) but i didn't try and rarely studied. i didn't want to go to grad school and i was happy with a "c". i've always taken a class every semester since i graduated in 1997 and my overall gpa is over 3.0 now. i am currently taking a calculus class.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#9 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 9:48 pm

creep wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:I have fucked up undergraduate grades
that surprises me. do you have a hard time with certain subjects or was it a lack of effort?

i graduated with a really bad gpa (2.5) but i didn't try and rarely studied. i didn't want to go to grad school and i was happy with a "c". i've always taken a class every semester since i graduated in 1997 and my overall gpa is over 3.0 now. i am currently taking a calculus class.
It was a combination of things. When I say "fucked up" I mean in comparison to some of the people I have to compete against. In courses related to what I work on it was almost entirely A or higher, but I took some weird courses along the way that I didn't have to, and took a German minor that I didn't have to. In my last year I got stuck in a German language course that was two-semesters long, and unfortunately, I just didn't do enough work for that class (I was concentrating on philosophy), so I pulled a C (though at Toronto the scale is different than at a lot of American schools. It was percentage marks and most good profs didn't give out marks about about 87 or 88.) That mark in particular just looks ridiculous on my transcript next to 88, 86, 87, 85... 60. :neutral:What was really strange was that I pulled 83 and 85 in two German Lit classes with exact same prof... :lol: And it was enough to mean I have had to work a lot harder in graduate coursework to try to compensate. It was partially my own ignorance for taking that course when I really didn't have to, and partially stubbornness for just not doing the damned work. :confused: Too late now though. I'll make it work.

As for what farrellgirl says, that doesn't seem right to me. Everyone I know who got in to an American graduate school is funded automatically (and that's: Berkeley, Michigan, Duke, Princeton, Harvard, USC, Chicago, UNC, Johns Hopkins... I have a lot of really smart/savvy friends who played the game really well. :lol: ) The fellowship/stipend thing she's talking about is usually given out automatically unless you get external scholarships (which is great... then you don't have to TA or teach.)
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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#10 Post by creep » Tue May 08, 2012 9:52 pm

farrellgirl99 wrote:(Standford for example has a poetry program where they give you a 26k stipend to attend because you're not allowed to hold a job while you're going to school there)
that is what is wrong with many graduate degrees. that shit will not get you a job.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#11 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 9:54 pm

creep wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:(Standford for example has a poetry program where they give you a 26k stipend to attend because you're not allowed to hold a job while you're going to school there)
that is what is wrong with many graduate degrees. that shit will not get you a job.
Actually what's wrong is the attitude that the graduate degree is there to "get you a job". It's obviously true that there should be jobs for people with graduate degrees, but if you go to university "to get a job", you're already there for the wrong reason. (I mean really... you would do better to become an electrician or any skilled tradesman) There are a ton of jobs a graduate degree in poetry could get you IF you're good. If you're not good, it's the same as with any other degree (except maybe law, a shitty lawyer can make a lot of money).

A bachelors degree in biology, for example, won't get you anything on its own. To really get a decent job, you've got to do a post-graduate certification that has an internship program, and then hope to hell the company you intern for keeps you long enough to get enough experience to apply for real jobs (or hope you make enough contacts to get hired again). It's just as much a crap shoot as any liberal arts degree.

Part of the problem is too many people are getting into these programs because they have inflated undergraduate grades, and then they find out no one wants to hire them, because they're mediocre.

I guess I should toss this out: I get 23k a year (grants, scholarships, and teaching assistantship/fellowship) for four years. But tuition isn't waved. At a lot of the schools I mentioned above, you get around the same amount, but tuition is waved. It's also true that I'm not allowed to do another job.

Basically I end up living on $17,000 a year, which is pretty frightening.
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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#12 Post by creep » Tue May 08, 2012 9:59 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
creep wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:(Standford for example has a poetry program where they give you a 26k stipend to attend because you're not allowed to hold a job while you're going to school there)
that is what is wrong with many graduate degrees. that shit will not get you a job.
Actually what's wrong is the attitude that the graduate degree is there to "get you a job". It's obviously true that there should be jobs for people with graduate degrees, but if you go to university "to get a job", you're already there for the wrong reason. There are a ton of jobs a graduate degree in poetry could get you IF you're good. If you're not good, it's the same as with any other degree (except maybe law, a shitty lawyer can make a lot of money).
it depends on what you study. do you think engineering students study engineering because of their love of the subject? you study engineering to earn a good living.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#13 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 10:01 pm

creep wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
creep wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:(Standford for example has a poetry program where they give you a 26k stipend to attend because you're not allowed to hold a job while you're going to school there)
that is what is wrong with many graduate degrees. that shit will not get you a job.
Actually what's wrong is the attitude that the graduate degree is there to "get you a job". It's obviously true that there should be jobs for people with graduate degrees, but if you go to university "to get a job", you're already there for the wrong reason. There are a ton of jobs a graduate degree in poetry could get you IF you're good. If you're not good, it's the same as with any other degree (except maybe law, a shitty lawyer can make a lot of money).
it depends on what you study. do you think engineering students study engineering because of their love of the subject? you study engineering to earn a good living.
Yeah, you're right. I fucking hate them. (sinep, I'm looking at you... :lol: )

But I consider engineering to be a kind of 'professional degree' even at the bachelors level... it's one of the few degrees geared directly toward the job market.

The assumption as a society should really, imho, be that genuinely talented graduate degree holders generate massive value for a society regardless of immediately quantifiable economic payoff.

The economic wealth generated by, e.g., Oscar Wilde, in the long run is fucking immense.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#14 Post by dali » Tue May 08, 2012 10:10 pm

Does Mark Zuckerberg have a PhD?

How abow Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Tiger Woods,(all college drop outs) etc etc.

My point is Society is starting to realize that college and higher degrees in a sense are bullshit and and not what determines a successful businessman or entrepreneur.

I mean look at Hype, he a perfect example of this. He's basically an idiot yet thinks because he's in "Academia" that gives his intellect cred. It does not, he just paid for it, that's all.

Bottom line, these days it's all about the "killer app", the next "facebook", etc. ALL OF WHICH college can't teach.
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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#15 Post by creep » Tue May 08, 2012 10:11 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
creep wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
creep wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:(Standford for example has a poetry program where they give you a 26k stipend to attend because you're not allowed to hold a job while you're going to school there)
that is what is wrong with many graduate degrees. that shit will not get you a job.
Actually what's wrong is the attitude that the graduate degree is there to "get you a job". It's obviously true that there should be jobs for people with graduate degrees, but if you go to university "to get a job", you're already there for the wrong reason. There are a ton of jobs a graduate degree in poetry could get you IF you're good. If you're not good, it's the same as with any other degree (except maybe law, a shitty lawyer can make a lot of money).
it depends on what you study. do you think engineering students study engineering because of their love of the subject? you study engineering to earn a good living.
Yeah, you're right. I fucking hate them. (sinep, I'm looking at you... :lol: )

But I consider engineering to be a kind of 'professional degree' even at the bachelors level... it's one of the few degrees geared directly toward the job market.
i think there should be more "trade" schools or more specialized programs that still teach real world job skills. i am most likely going back full time to school to do something else the second half of my life. i am going 100% to "get a job". i would be studying engineering in a very specialized school.
Class of 2010: Percent hired in their field within three months of graduation - 90%, Average starting salary - 73K
pretty good odds...

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#16 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 10:12 pm

dali wrote:Does Mark Zuckerberg have a PhD?

How abow Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Tiger Woods,(all college drop outs) etc etc.

My point is Society is starting to realize that college and higher degrees in a sense are bullshit and and not what determines a successful businessman or entrepreneur.

I mean look at Hype, he a perfect example of this. He's basically an idiot yet thinks because he's in "Academia" that gives his intellect cred. It does not, he just paid for it, that's all.

Bottom line, these days it's all about the "killer app", the next "facebook", etc. ALL OF WHICH college can't teach.
That's idiotic reasoning. How many Nobel Prize winners have PhDs?

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#17 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 10:14 pm

creep wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
creep wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
creep wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:(Standford for example has a poetry program where they give you a 26k stipend to attend because you're not allowed to hold a job while you're going to school there)
that is what is wrong with many graduate degrees. that shit will not get you a job.
Actually what's wrong is the attitude that the graduate degree is there to "get you a job". It's obviously true that there should be jobs for people with graduate degrees, but if you go to university "to get a job", you're already there for the wrong reason. There are a ton of jobs a graduate degree in poetry could get you IF you're good. If you're not good, it's the same as with any other degree (except maybe law, a shitty lawyer can make a lot of money).
it depends on what you study. do you think engineering students study engineering because of their love of the subject? you study engineering to earn a good living.
Yeah, you're right. I fucking hate them. (sinep, I'm looking at you... :lol: )

But I consider engineering to be a kind of 'professional degree' even at the bachelors level... it's one of the few degrees geared directly toward the job market.
i think there should be more "trade" schools or more specialized programs that still teach real world job skills. i am most likely going back full time to school to do something else the second half of my life. i am going 100% to "get a job". i would be studying engineering in a very specialized school.
Class of 2010: Percent hired in their field within three months of graduation - 90%, Average starting salary - 73K
pretty good odds...
Yeah. I can respect that. The odds of getting a job would drastically change if everyone did that though. Remember 'web design'? :lol:

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#18 Post by dali » Tue May 08, 2012 10:15 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
dali wrote:Does Mark Zuckerberg have a PhD?

How abow Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Tiger Woods,(all college drop outs) etc etc.

My point is Society is starting to realize that college and higher degrees in a sense are bullshit and and not what determines a successful businessman or entrepreneur.

I mean look at Hype, he a perfect example of this. He's basically an idiot yet thinks because he's in "Academia" that gives his intellect cred. It does not, he just paid for it, that's all.

Bottom line, these days it's all about the "killer app", the next "facebook", etc. ALL OF WHICH college can't teach.
That's idiotic reasoning. How many Nobel Prize winners have PhDs?
Nobel Prize winners haven't created Windows or Facebook.

Maybe we should start a thread about how Nobel prizes are akin to PhD's are don't mean shit. lol

These days, it's not about how "smart" you are, it's about how your are able to implement that "smartness" into something profitable, useable and beneficial for society.

"Theory" doesn't pay, nor should it. Show me something I can put my hands on, that's the true reflection of genius.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#19 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 10:19 pm

dali wrote:Nobel Prize winners haven't created Windows or Facebook.

Maybe we should start a thread about how Nobel prizes are akin to PhD's are don't mean shit. lol
That's very funny, Dali. Windows and Facebook would not exist had PhDs (some of whom won Nobel prizes) not used physics and mathematics (via philosophy/logic) to develop the conceptual framework and theoretical physical underpinnings for modern computing (see: Turing, Church, Dirac, etc etc etc.).

You can go dream about having the money Gates and Zuckerberg have though, since you don't have the brains to do the other stuff anyway. :wave:

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#20 Post by dali » Tue May 08, 2012 10:22 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote: You can go dream about having the money Gates and Zuckerberg have though, since you don't have the brains to do the other stuff anyway. :wave:

But I never said I did have the brains, yet people like you paid for an advanced degree to "convince" society that you DO have the brains and society is calling you on your bullshit. :wave:
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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#21 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 10:22 pm

dali wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote: You can go dream about having the money Gates and Zuckerberg have though, since you don't have the brains to do the other stuff anyway. :wave:

But I never said I did have the brains, yet people like you paid for an advance degree to "convince" society that you DO have the brains and society is calling you on your bullshit. :wave:
I didn't pay for it... I'm being paid for it. :neutral: Do you even know how to read?

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#22 Post by dali » Tue May 08, 2012 10:35 pm

For some reason, all I can think about when reading this thread is John Nash.

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#23 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 10:40 pm

dali wrote:For some reason, all I can think about when reading this thread is John Nash.

Image
Perfect example of unexpected economic value creation from academia. A NYT bestseller and a successful movie... all because some schizo guy went to graduate school for math and helped push game theory forward. :nod:

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#24 Post by farrellgirl99 » Tue May 08, 2012 11:17 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
creep wrote:
creep wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:(Standford for example has a poetry program where they give you a 26k stipend to attend because you're not allowed to hold a job while you're going to school there)
that is what is wrong with many graduate degrees. that shit will not get you a job.
Actually what's wrong is the attitude that the graduate degree is there to "get you a job". It's obviously true that there should be jobs for people with graduate degrees, but if you go to university "to get a job", you're already there for the wrong reason. There are a ton of jobs a graduate degree in poetry could get you IF you're good. If you're not good, it's the same as with any other degree (except maybe law, a shitty lawyer can make a lot of money).
it depends on what you study. do you think engineering students study engineering because of their love of the subject? you study engineering to earn a good living.
Well as a poetry major I like to support the idea of poetry programs but I'm not interested in getting an MFA because I know it's not a good investment unless I was going to teach, which I am not. Maybe I will go back and do it when I am older and have money. I like the idea of the Stanford program though because it's not a MA program, it's just a chance for writers to write. So it's basically a residency and I think it's cool that a respected school offers the chance to write for a year while they pay you. They only accept 5 poets and 5 fiction writers every year, so it's intensely competitive.

I guess I am a classic example of someone going to school for a "pointless" degree. I'm smart enough that I could have gone towards a better field but I just don't like it, and I don't see the point of doing engineering if I hate engineering. I don't pay to go to school, so I don't feel bad about squandering my college life away.

I want to go into Publishing (which is a dying field blah blah blah) but I don't care. I only need a BA to do it and I'm planning to apply to the three top grad publishing courses (held at Columbia, NYU, and Denver) next year. Hopefully I'll get in, go through a 6 week program, and come out with a full time job. It'll be that simple right? :lol:

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Re: The PhD Now Comes With Food Stamps (article)

#25 Post by Hype » Tue May 08, 2012 11:21 pm

Ahhh you got the quotes inverted! I didn't say the last thing, and creep didn't say the second last one!

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