Syria

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Jasper
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Re: Syria

#41 Post by Jasper » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:38 pm

I support Canada taking military action, insofar as I will not do anything to stop them. End of story.

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chaos
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Re: Syria

#42 Post by chaos » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:51 pm

For those of you who use twitter:
The 23 Twitter accounts you must follow to understand Syria
By Max Fisher, Published: August 30 at 1:11 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... and-syria/

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chaos
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Re: Syria

#43 Post by chaos » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:59 am

"What doesn't kill a tyrant makes him stronger." Powerful piece against syria intervention.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... r-war.html

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chaos
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Re: Syria

#44 Post by chaos » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:57 am

Obama is addressing the public now; he found his out. He is going to let Congress vote on whether to intervene militarily in Syria.

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Re: Syria

#45 Post by creep » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:20 am

chaos wrote:Obama is addressing the public now; he found his out. He is going to let Congress vote on whether to intervene militarily in Syria.
he must read this board because that is what i suggested.

i thought he would find a way out.

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farrellgirl99
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Re: Syria

#46 Post by farrellgirl99 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:22 am

creep wrote:
chaos wrote:Obama is addressing the public now; he found his out. He is going to let Congress vote on whether to intervene militarily in Syria.
he must read this board because that is what i suggested.

i thought he would find a way out.
:lol:

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LJF
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Re: Syria

#47 Post by LJF » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:40 pm

chaos wrote:Obama is addressing the public now; he found his out. He is going to let Congress vote on whether to intervene militarily in Syria.

You were right he would find a way out. Hope we don't get involved, but it still makes him look weak if he doesn't get approval.

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chaos
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Re: Syria

#48 Post by chaos » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:04 pm

Obama has diverted attention to Congress. Congress wanted to be consulted, but I don't think they were expecting that they would be given the chance to vote. They aren't due back from vacation until the week of Sept. 9th. If they don't come back early, that will make them look bad (as if they could look worse). Also, a special meeting has been scheduled tomorrow for any member of Congress who wants to attend in order to get the classified background info on Syria. It is interesting that the time and place of the meeting was made available to the press since these types of meetings usually aren't. So you know the press will be waiting with their cameras to document which politicians decided to take the time to come.

Although some people will say that the President is "abdicating" responsibility or that he looks weak for not following through, he covered himself in his address this afternoon:
But having made my decision as commander in chief based on what I am convinced is our national security interests, I'm also mindful that I'm the president of the world's oldest constitutional democracy. I've long believed that our power is rooted not just in our military might, but in our example as a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. And that's why I've made a second decision: I will seek authorization for the use of force from the American people's representatives in Congress.
Entire speech: http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2013/aug/3 ... -on-syria/

I hope he does not get the votes (whenever there is a vote). I think, however, this is a calculated move that not only gives BO an out but also will make Congress look even more dysfunctional. Can you imagine how the next few weeks are going to play out, especially after the brouhaha some of them made about wanting to vote/intervene/get more info etc.

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Re: Syria

#49 Post by LJF » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:17 pm

Under Obama the US made air strikes against Libya and he didn't get approval from congress. A real leader makes tough decisions, that is their job. If he truly believes what he says about our national security make the call. He gave the red line talk, that was he word. If congress votes it down what does he do?

He is showing he made the wrong call about the red line and now he wants to push it off to others.

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chaos
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Re: Syria

#50 Post by chaos » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:24 pm

I agree that he tripped himself up with the "red line." However, I think that the impact of his not getting the votes will be buffered considerably by the time that will have passed, as well as from the spectacle(s) that we are in store for in the next few weeks. :lol: As I said, considerable attention has been diverted away from the president. So when you ask what will he do, consider what will have occurred.

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Re: Syria

#51 Post by creep » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:26 pm

LJF wrote:Under Obama the US made air strikes against Libya and he didn't get approval from congress. A real leader makes tough decisions, that is their job. If he truly believes what he says about our national security make the call. He gave the red line talk, that was he word. If congress votes it down what does he do?

He is showing he made the wrong call about the red line and now he wants to push it off to others.
so you said that we shouldn't have air strikes. the president basically decided not to. now you criticize his decision. :crazy:

whether you like the guy or not the correct decision was made and he did it in a way to not make him look as weak.

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Re: Syria

#52 Post by LJF » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:55 pm

creep wrote:
LJF wrote:Under Obama the US made air strikes against Libya and he didn't get approval from congress. A real leader makes tough decisions, that is their job. If he truly believes what he says about our national security make the call. He gave the red line talk, that was he word. If congress votes it down what does he do?

He is showing he made the wrong call about the red line and now he wants to push it off to others.
so you said that we shouldn't have air strikes. the president basically decided not to. now you criticize his decision. :crazy:

whether you like the guy or not the correct decision was made and he did it in a way to not make him look as weak.

No he didn't he said he wants to act, but will try to get approval, but difference. Yes I hope we don't do anything. I think from his red line stance talk he has no option but to do something and by not acting like a true leader, but instead pushing it off to others he still looks weak. Also he is now playing politics with an issue he said he feels is of national security.

All I think this weakness could put us and the rest of the world at a higher security risk from Iran.

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chaos
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Re: Syria

#53 Post by chaos » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:27 pm

Well I'm glad he does not care that his decision may be perceived as his being weak. At this point, we do not need to further destabilize the region, and agitate not only Assad (who has missiles pointed at Israel), but also China and Russia. Remember Assad wants more than anything to stay in power, so I do not think he is going to go all nuclear unless he thinks he is going to lose it all. Our national security would have been put more at risk if the US went ahead with the strikes, especially since no allies were willing to stand with us. This does not mean we do nothing; it means we do something else.

The fact that he took pause and chose not to move ahead because he already drew a line in the sand shows true leadership. I do not think he would be perceived as a stronger leader if he forged ahead with a poor plan. He realized that he made the wrong decision for which he had little support. Perhaps he actually took into account what his advisors had to say with regard to the the consequences of a strike - consequences that I think far outweigh what Iran thinks of his decision. If Iran acts up, then BO and the international community can deal with it then and come up with a real plan tailored to the specific circumstances.

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Larry B.
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Re: Syria

#54 Post by Larry B. » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:18 pm

LJF wrote:Under Obama the US made air strikes against Libya and he didn't get approval from congress. A real leader makes tough decisions, that is their job. If he truly believes what he says about our national security make the call.
Do you really believe that people being killed in Syria affects your national security? Please, explain to me how exactly. How does that government is a risk for your national security.

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Re: Syria

#55 Post by LJF » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:33 am

Larry B. wrote:
LJF wrote:Under Obama the US made air strikes against Libya and he didn't get approval from congress. A real leader makes tough decisions, that is their job. If he truly believes what he says about our national security make the call.
Do you really believe that people being killed in Syria affects your national security? Please, explain to me how exactly. How does that government is a risk for your national security.

Ask Obama, he is the one that said it.

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Re: Syria

#56 Post by Larry B. » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:31 am

LJF wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
LJF wrote:Under Obama the US made air strikes against Libya and he didn't get approval from congress. A real leader makes tough decisions, that is their job. If he truly believes what he says about our national security make the call.
Do you really believe that people being killed in Syria affects your national security? Please, explain to me how exactly. How does that government is a risk for your national security.

Ask Obama, he is the one that said it.
My question was pretty clear: do you believe it?

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Re: Syria

#57 Post by LJF » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:03 am

Larry B. wrote:
LJF wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
LJF wrote:Under Obama the US made air strikes against Libya and he didn't get approval from congress. A real leader makes tough decisions, that is their job. If he truly believes what he says about our national security make the call.
Do you really believe that people being killed in Syria affects your national security? Please, explain to me how exactly. How does that government is a risk for your national security.

Ask Obama, he is the one that said it.
My question was pretty clear: do you believe it?

Not how I read it, to me you were asking me to defend the statement you quoted, which was Obama saying it. Whatever, I'd say probably not and that our national security would be more at risk with limited air strikes. Obama and his administration have stated many times regime change isn't the plan, not sure that really helps either, but limited strikes I don't see how that helps. We've put them on notice so I'd assume they would move around any stockpiles, but I'm certainly no military expert not even close.

I've said from the beginning we shouldn't do anything and I still believe that. I also believe that no matter what we do the US looks bad on man levels. If we go in and it's alone people say why is the US acting like the world police not their place to do that. They are just trying to spread their interests in Middle East. If we don't people will say why isn't the US doing more as the world police to correct a country that is using chemical weapons. There is also Obama's red line stance, which he somewhat covered his ass on yesterday.

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Bandit72
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Re: Syria

#58 Post by Bandit72 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:28 am

Looks like the Russians (who abhor chemical weapons) have told the Syrians to calm the fuck down. Which is fair enough, but can anyone tell me the difference between a using chemical weapons or using 50 cruise missiles?

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Re: Syria

#59 Post by kv » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:57 am

Bandit72 wrote:Looks like the Russians (who abhor chemical weapons) have told the Syrians to calm the fuck down. Which is fair enough, but can anyone tell me the difference between a using chemical weapons or using 50 cruise missiles?
the geneva protocol

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Bandit72
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Re: Syria

#60 Post by Bandit72 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:08 am

I was referring to 'deaths'

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