obamacare

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Romeo
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Re: obamacare

#21 Post by Romeo » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:41 am

Essence_Smith wrote:I am not the most informed when it comes to how this act is supposed to work, nor how badly it's been executed, but I do know how it is to have a serious medical condition and be refused treatment because you don't have insurance. I literally needed surgery a few years ago and was turned away at a half dozen hospitals...I was told unless it was life threatening I would just have to be in pain. I mention this to say when we have these discussions about wasteful government spending and take the time to point out all the flaws in a changing system we shouldn't forget why we need these laws in place and the people that benefit by them. People say "government" and "the poor", etc and forget that we're talking about PEOPLE. The human element seems to get lost in the conversation. There's no question in my mind that we need universal health care...what does it say about americans in general that so many people are tearing this apart and trying to use it as an example of how government gets it wrong? Nothing the scope of this bill will come off without a hitch...I'm sure there was a shitstorm when they integrated the schools and ended segregation too... I don't take part in these discussions too often because I feel like people have different agendas aside from reaching an understanding with one another. Regardless of how it's being executed at the moment, can we agree that we do NEED affordable healthcare for all?
AND if I might add...

Who is it to say that only those with money get better healthcare options than those without. IT'S HEALTHCARE.

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#22 Post by Hype » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:01 am

creep wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Juana wrote:Yes, I think we should all have access to health care if we want it. That is part of the reason we offer UHC to the workers at the bar that work there FT. We do not have to but its something that I felt was important.
I don't want to sound like some random guy on the internet telling you how to run your business, but as a moral philosopher, and a human being, I have to say: you really ought to consider offering an option to your PT workers as well, even if it costs a little extra money. The benefit from your end is PT workers who are less stressed, less sick, etc., and more willing to work hard for you. In my experience it's absolutely awful for people who need things like Adderall or anti-depressants and are struggling to maintain a part-time job to not be able to have help paying for medication. In these cases, the lack of access to these drugs effectively puts them at a huge disadvantage at work, and puts the employer at risk of having flakey employees who don't show up on time or at all, don't do their jobs properly, or start doing weird shit while at work (like stealing, or being rude to customers, or damaging property). And a lot of this is easy to fix for not a whole lot of money from the perspective of the employer (and long-term I wager that it's actually LESS expensive if you work out the math on the plans right.)
with obamacare it's not needed. if they only work part time they would most likely get pretty large subsidies and they can get insurance themselves for a couple dollars a month.
If that's true, then the Affordable Care Act provides better care than the public healthcare in Canada, since up here, e.g., OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) doesn't cover certain things (which is why people still need coverage from their employers) -- I'm pretty sure they don't cover the cost of things like prozac/zoloft, adderall, etc., which is really stupid, since these things are like baseline needs for some people to even be able to get up and go to work effectively in the first place.

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Juana
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Re: obamacare

#23 Post by Juana » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:23 pm

creep wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Juana wrote:Yes, I think we should all have access to health care if we want it. That is part of the reason we offer UHC to the workers at the bar that work there FT. We do not have to but its something that I felt was important.
I don't want to sound like some random guy on the internet telling you how to run your business, but as a moral philosopher, and a human being, I have to say: you really ought to consider offering an option to your PT workers as well, even if it costs a little extra money. The benefit from your end is PT workers who are less stressed, less sick, etc., and more willing to work hard for you. In my experience it's absolutely awful for people who need things like Adderall or anti-depressants and are struggling to maintain a part-time job to not be able to have help paying for medication. In these cases, the lack of access to these drugs effectively puts them at a huge disadvantage at work, and puts the employer at risk of having flakey employees who don't show up on time or at all, don't do their jobs properly, or start doing weird shit while at work (like stealing, or being rude to customers, or damaging property). And a lot of this is easy to fix for not a whole lot of money from the perspective of the employer (and long-term I wager that it's actually LESS expensive if you work out the math on the plans right.)
with obamacare it's not needed. if they only work part time they would most likely get pretty large subsidies and they can get insurance themselves for a couple dollars a month.
What creep said also most bars do not offer any types of benefits so the fact I was able to talk my partners into it in the first place was a huge win. But the cost to benefit ratio for PTers (we consider 30 hours scheduled FT) would cut into the margins to a point where my partners would likely scrap insurance all together. So in this case its win some lose some and just be happy that I got a couple of TX born and bred "this is an at will state" types to bend on the health care. It should also be noted that because of this I only get 25% of the profits while they get to split 75%. So I took a big risk in going that route financially (hence the bars being my PT income now). But the good that came out of this is everyone wants to work for us now. So eventually we're going to have an entire block of bars. :rockon:

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#24 Post by Hype » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:55 pm

Ah, okay, I see how that's a small, though Pyrrhic, victory. Of course, I'd be for your employees unionizing, too, if they're not already. :hehe:

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SR
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Re: obamacare

#25 Post by SR » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:17 pm

Obamacare doesn't cover flower pots.

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Re: obamacare

#26 Post by creep » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:47 pm

our california run obamacare mailed me nine of the exact same letter today (in separate envelopes). i received three yesterday (not pictured because i threw them away). the postage for each letter was 40 cents, plus the envelope, paper, ink and labor to send it let's say total cost 50 cents a letter. if they fucked up and did this to every person in california (3.3 million) that signed up it would waste:

3,300,000 x 11 (so far) x 50 cents = 18.15 million dollars.

i wonder how many more i will get?? i wonder if everyone got these?

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#27 Post by Hype » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:43 pm

You can view CC's budget here: http://hbex.coveredca.com/financial-rep ... Budget.pdf

I don't know what those letters would fall under, but if they did spend $18 million on this round, that's 4% of their recommended budget for the year... which doesn't sound too crazy I guess, given that it's a 4 year old program with huge enrollment numbers still coming in. They're expecting those costs to drop dramatically very quickly, once they get a critical mass of people to finally have insurance. I'd guess they probably also expect to fix a lot of these logistical fuckups over time as well...

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farrellgirl99
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Re: obamacare

#28 Post by farrellgirl99 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:52 pm

i actually just enrolled for healthcare today. im working part time right now, and my work keeps me at 18 hours so they dont have to give me benefits (and im on NYS payroll :lol: )

i make so little my healthcare will be free. :dunce: god bless america

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LJF
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Re: obamacare

#29 Post by LJF » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:42 pm

farrellgirl99 wrote:i actually just enrolled for healthcare today. im working part time right now, and my work keeps me at 18 hours so they dont have to give me benefits (and im on NYS payroll :lol: )

i make so little my healthcare will be free. :dunce: god bless america

No it's not. I guess no need to mention Jonathan Gruber.

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farrellgirl99
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Re: obamacare

#30 Post by farrellgirl99 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:33 am

LJF wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:i actually just enrolled for healthcare today. im working part time right now, and my work keeps me at 18 hours so they dont have to give me benefits (and im on NYS payroll :lol: )

i make so little my healthcare will be free. :dunce: god bless america

No it's not. I guess no need to mention Jonathan Gruber.
If my healthcare wasn't subsidized, I would be stuck with a plan that cost 45% of my monthly salary. Not sustainable. So I'm happy for any assistance I can get, even if you're unhappy your taxes are going towards it. Atleast, I assume that was what your post was about.

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LJF
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Re: obamacare

#31 Post by LJF » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:57 am

farrellgirl99 wrote:
LJF wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:i actually just enrolled for healthcare today. im working part time right now, and my work keeps me at 18 hours so they dont have to give me benefits (and im on NYS payroll :lol: )

i make so little my healthcare will be free. :dunce: god bless america

No it's not. I guess no need to mention Jonathan Gruber.
If my healthcare wasn't subsidized, I would be stuck with a plan that cost 45% of my monthly salary. Not sustainable. So I'm happy for any assistance I can get, even if you're unhappy your taxes are going towards it. Atleast, I assume that was what your post was about.

Just pointing out that it's not for free. One of my concerns is when people start thinking it's for free, because it certainly isn't. Also you will have a deductible.

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#32 Post by Hype » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:33 am

Did you qualify for Medicaid? Looks like it's "free" for some low-income people: https://www.healthcare.gov/medicaid-chip/

Of course "free" is context-sensitive...

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farrellgirl99
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Re: obamacare

#33 Post by farrellgirl99 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:44 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:Did you qualify for Medicaid? Looks like it's "free" for some low-income people: https://www.healthcare.gov/medicaid-chip/

Of course "free" is context-sensitive...
Yup that's what ended up happening. Until I find a full time job with benefits, no shame in the game for me.

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#34 Post by Hype » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:20 pm

farrellgirl99 wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:Did you qualify for Medicaid? Looks like it's "free" for some low-income people: https://www.healthcare.gov/medicaid-chip/

Of course "free" is context-sensitive...
Yup that's what ended up happening. Until I find a full time job with benefits, no shame in the game for me.
That makes LJF's comment even weirder. Does he really think you didn't understand that taxes fund social welfare programs? :confused: (Hey, um... is that mansplaining? :noclue: :lol: )

I mean: no one gets confused by the fact that non-toll highways ("freeways"?) are "free" in the sense of being a thing you can use without having to pay a person immediately or specifically... :confused:

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LJF
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Re: obamacare

#35 Post by LJF » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:04 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:Did you qualify for Medicaid? Looks like it's "free" for some low-income people: https://www.healthcare.gov/medicaid-chip/

Of course "free" is context-sensitive...
Yup that's what ended up happening. Until I find a full time job with benefits, no shame in the game for me.
That makes LJF's comment even weirder. Does he really think you didn't understand that taxes fund social welfare programs? :confused: (Hey, um... is that mansplaining? :noclue: :lol: )

I mean: no one gets confused by the fact that non-toll highways ("freeways"?) are "free" in the sense of being a thing you can use without having to pay a person immediately or specifically... :confused:

"My healthcare wil be free"', those were her exact words. It bothers me, when people say that. If that's weird to you well not sure what to tell you.

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#36 Post by Hype » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:24 pm

LJF wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:Did you qualify for Medicaid? Looks like it's "free" for some low-income people: https://www.healthcare.gov/medicaid-chip/

Of course "free" is context-sensitive...
Yup that's what ended up happening. Until I find a full time job with benefits, no shame in the game for me.
That makes LJF's comment even weirder. Does he really think you didn't understand that taxes fund social welfare programs? :confused: (Hey, um... is that mansplaining? :noclue: :lol: )

I mean: no one gets confused by the fact that non-toll highways ("freeways"?) are "free" in the sense of being a thing you can use without having to pay a person immediately or specifically... :confused:

"My healthcare wil be free"', those were her exact words. It bothers me, when people say that. If that's weird to you well not sure what to tell you.
...
In all states, Medicaid provides free or low-cost care for some low-income people, families and children, pregnant women, the elderly, and people with disabilities.
I don't know if you're just intentionally being obtuse because you're ideologically bound to focus only on the fact that governance uses taxes to pay for what it does, or if you're actually incapable of understanding how words work...

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farrellgirl99
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Re: obamacare

#37 Post by farrellgirl99 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:27 pm

I'll just save everyone time and energy and admit it: I'm a welfare queen.

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LJF
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Re: obamacare

#38 Post by LJF » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:30 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
LJF wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:Did you qualify for Medicaid? Looks like it's "free" for some low-income people: https://www.healthcare.gov/medicaid-chip/

Of course "free" is context-sensitive...
Yup that's what ended up happening. Until I find a full time job with benefits, no shame in the game for me.
That makes LJF's comment even weirder. Does he really think you didn't understand that taxes fund social welfare programs? :confused: (Hey, um... is that mansplaining? :noclue: :lol: )

I mean: no one gets confused by the fact that non-toll highways ("freeways"?) are "free" in the sense of being a thing you can use without having to pay a person immediately or specifically... :confused:

"My healthcare wil be free"', those were her exact words. It bothers me, when people say that. If that's weird to you well not sure what to tell you.
...
In all states, Medicaid provides free or low-cost care for some low-income people, families and children, pregnant women, the elderly, and people with disabilities.
I don't know if you're just intentionally being obtuse because you're ideologically bound to focus only on the fact that governance uses taxes to pay for what it does, or if you're actually incapable of understanding how words work...
Sorry you can't understand that I find it annoying or frustrating when people says something like healthcare is "free" when it isn't. It's just one of those things that gets me. So please carry on with your deep analysis.

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Essence_Smith
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Re: obamacare

#39 Post by Essence_Smith » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:06 am

I just love it when people who pay taxes on anything think that because some people get some sort of support from the government for any reason it's personal, like it's literally coming out of their pocket...if I hear one more fifth grader tell me that his school is free, I think I'm gonna lose it... :essence:

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#40 Post by Hype » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:02 am

:lol:

What's ironic, is that this preoccupation with the economic and literal sense of "free" is associate with an ideology that dramatically limits the scope of freedom in general (see: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liber ... -negative/ ) even more than the standard liberal conception already does. Worse, it's an ideology whose proponents seem blissfully unaware that its logical upshot is anarcho-fascism.

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Romeo
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Re: obamacare

#41 Post by Romeo » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:02 am

farrellgirl99 wrote:I'll just save everyone time and energy and admit it: I'm a welfare queen.
YOU GO GURL!! :banana:

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Re: obamacare

#42 Post by Romeo » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:04 am

LJF wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
LJF wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:Did you qualify for Medicaid? Looks like it's "free" for some low-income people: https://www.healthcare.gov/medicaid-chip/

Of course "free" is context-sensitive...
Yup that's what ended up happening. Until I find a full time job with benefits, no shame in the game for me.
That makes LJF's comment even weirder. Does he really think you didn't understand that taxes fund social welfare programs? :confused: (Hey, um... is that mansplaining? :noclue: :lol: )

I mean: no one gets confused by the fact that non-toll highways ("freeways"?) are "free" in the sense of being a thing you can use without having to pay a person immediately or specifically... :confused:

"My healthcare wil be free"', those were her exact words. It bothers me, when people say that. If that's weird to you well not sure what to tell you.
...
In all states, Medicaid provides free or low-cost care for some low-income people, families and children, pregnant women, the elderly, and people with disabilities.
I don't know if you're just intentionally being obtuse because you're ideologically bound to focus only on the fact that governance uses taxes to pay for what it does, or if you're actually incapable of understanding how words work...
Sorry you can't understand that I find it annoying or frustrating when people says something like healthcare is "free" when it isn't. It's just one of those things that gets me. So please carry on with your deep analysis.

Actually, if SHE is working P/T, SHE is paying taxes. Therefore SHE is paying her own insurance.

But next time you drive on the Southern State Parkway or the LIE, you can thank me for your free drive. You didn't pay a toll and my taxes go for the up keep.

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#43 Post by Hype » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:17 am

Actually, if SHE is working P/T, SHE is paying taxes. Therefore SHE is paying her own insurance.
Isn't there a "minimum personal exemption" for income taxes? I know there is in Canada, so that you get back all the taxes paid on the first $10-11,000 of income or so (this is for everyone, as I understand it...). And even if she does pay taxes, that shouldn't really matter, since the idea behind paying taxes isn't "to pay for the things you use", it's "to fund the government so that a commonwealth can function", whatever that means (and it means different things to different people at different times).

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LJF
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Re: obamacare

#44 Post by LJF » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:41 am

Actually, if SHE is working P/T, SHE is paying taxes. Therefore SHE is paying her own insurance.

But next time you drive on the Southern State Parkway or the LIE, you can thank me for your free drive. You didn't pay a toll and my taxes go for the up keep.[/quote]




Ok thanks you just proved my point, it isn't for free. So how is what you said any different from what I said? No one is jumping all over you. Everyone jumped on it and took it whatever way they wanted which is fine. If you read what I wrote it simply says it isn't for free. I didn't say I'm paying for it, or you're paying for it, or anyone in particular just it isn't free.


I don't drive or at least haven't yet driven on the southern state parkway or the LIE, but when I do I will send you a personal thank you. Would you like that in a note, e-mail, or PM. My hand writing is terrible so if you want it hand written sorry in advance it will be difficult to read.

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Hype
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Re: obamacare

#45 Post by Hype » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:17 pm

:neutral:

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