Aint No Right

clickie wrote:You sound like one of those conspiratorial people Wally

how high are you?

wally wrote:

clickie wrote:You sound like one of those conspiratorial people Wally

how high are you?

Classic clickie.

clickie wrote:

wally wrote:

clickie wrote:That picture reminds me of the old Norman Rockwell plates my mom collected. We need a couple armed police officers in every school nowdays whether you guys like it or not.

there was an armed sheriff deputy at the school in FL.
he hid outside like a bitch for four minutes while the kid was shooting. he has been fired.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/us/n ... oting.html
i'm sure an armed teacher would have confronted him though.

He couldn't even handle his job thats why he deserves to get fired but resigned instead. He was a pussy. You take a job as any security officer there are risks involved.

I think the guard may be getting a raw deal here. I keep reading that "he didn't go into the building." It is unrealistic to expect one person to blindly run into the building and take on someone with a semi. I've read he had shooter response training but that could mean anything. He was a School Resource Officer. The whole event took around six minutes.

There's no fast n' easy answers. Limiting to 21+ age purchase of assault type weapons would have little impact, even outright banning them (again) wouldn't stop any seriously determined potential killer. As already mentioned, there's pros and cons to having armed security on campuses and/or allowing teachers to carry concealed weapons. That doesn't mean implementing any of the above wouldn't cut a percentage of these type of incidents from being carried out down by some degree which at least makes such options worthy of consideration.

I do think there needs to be far better security and screening to get on school grounds which will cost billions. And the whole gun purchase background check system needs to be seriously tightened and streamlined. Sadly, schools now need to have the kind of security you have to get through an airport.

The real issue is how increasingly desensitized especially Americans are progressively becoming towards the value of life and what the consequences are of taking another person's life. Add to that the higher than ever percentage of seriously mentally ill people going untreated. There's a fundamental breakdown happening right now in American society and it's only going to get worse.

chaos wrote:I think the guard may be getting a raw deal here. I keep reading that "he didn't go into the building." It is unrealistic to expect one person to blindly run into the building and take on someone with a semi. I've read he had shooter response training but that could mean anything. He was a School Resource Officer. The whole event took around six minutes.

Yeah, it's easy to jump to conclusions and judge but apparently there's surveillance footage showing the guy arriving at the scene, taking up a position outside the building while the shooting was in progress and kids screaming inside and more or less standing behind a column and calling in details of what was happening and not going inside while the massacre was happening. He is more or less a regular cop who is assigned the school to be a liaison with the school and students aka a "resource officer." He's gone through typical police training so he knew what to do which includes engaging the shooter to prevent more deaths.

Meanwhile, a football coach aggressively shielded several students and took numerous bullets, giving his life for those kids.

chaos wrote:I think the guard may be getting a raw deal here. I keep reading that "he didn't go into the building." It is unrealistic to expect one person to blindly run into the building and take on someone with a semi.

Why? he had his own semi...

Everyone is now talking about semi automatics like they used to talk about full auto..."ban semi automatics" that's most revolvers...it just means when you pull the trigger it shoots once....most guns are semi automatic

My bad. I meant one of those rapid fire assault/machine guns.

No easy answers, sure.

But more guns --high-round / automatic / military grade / or whatever terminology someone wants to use-- is not one of them. See Hype's tweet quotation above. The good-guy with a gun argument is little but an insidious myth if it's forwarded with the intention of being the (singular) primary and only actionable solution in a much bigger problem --- a problem that clearly includes, even if it is not limited to, gun accessibility in the Unites States. I also don't think we can simply attribute the problem to "sickos," though I would agree that anyone perpetrating such crimes is highly unstable and quite probably mentally ill. That kind of language is purely part of the spin machine to shift the focus to mental health, deflecting from the ease of access to firearms with the potential to bring about massive loss of life in minutes. If we slide into pejoratives like "sicko," we participate in the demonization/dehumanization of conditions that people using such terms as "sicko" say are actually at the heart of the mass-shooting problem needing to be addressed. Pretty fucked approach.

I've also had it up to my eyeballs with people who take up slippery slope arguments against any common-sense gun law reforms. I get it, bearing arms in a well-regulated militia has slid into an individual "right" to any kind of fire arm, so I see how that warped "logic" runs. But it's still fucking ludicrous.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

You guys need gun owners to change mentality from "my rights to guns is more important than lives".

Oh and the industry behind it... gooood luck

nausearockpig wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

You guys need gun owners to change mentality from "my rights to guns is more important than lives".

Oh and the industry behind it... gooood luck

No doubt.

It's a weird time. Seeing these young kids insistently ask no-nonsense questions about rights to live safely is heartening, as is the mass exodus of businesses from NRA partnerships. The activism is promising for sure. But I also know the weight of the industry, the historical patterns of attrition, and the inane insistence to cling to gun rights (any and all kinds of guns) superseding any other rights. It's a tough, long slog that will no doubt be punctuated by many more needless deaths before the paradigm shifts.

The answer, I think, lies outside of the repetitive discourse of old. The vast majority of people (and registered voters) want gun control. Those beholden to the antiquated thinking pertaining to the Constitution and whose values lie outside of basic humanity.....and purposely deny the evidence that is clearly unanimous in other countries should simply be bypassed at this point. The conversation is dead. Those still whoring to the NRA simply need to be voted out, which requires an active voter turnout by a demo that has clearly been demoralized in the last 18 months.

Maybe you should get OneMillionMoms to do something other than trying to ban TV shows, like you know, save lives.

Lost cause and don't need them. Like I said, the vast majority of the voting populace is in favor of gun control. Besides, who else will bring gay cartoon characters to my attention?

nausearockpig wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

You guys need gun owners to change mentality from "my rights to guns is more important than lives".

Oh and the industry behind it... gooood luck

Looks like you guys got played by the anti gun agenda

clickie wrote:

nausearockpig wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

You guys need gun owners to change mentality from "my rights to guns is more important than lives".

Oh and the industry behind it... gooood luck

Looks like you guys got played by the anti gun agenda

How many massacres have there been in the US and in Australia since that date?

Maybe you're ok with all the deaths. You don't need so many guns that are so easy to get, you just like them. End of story.

Why does the American imagination get so carried away? Australia's gun control reforms have been both extremely effective at reducing gun violence AND they haven't produced a dystopian no-gun land where no one can have any fun. Australia still has shooting ranges... https://www.australianshootingacademy.com.au/

Imagination/delusion. Sweden too has enjoyed success in gun ownership (at exceptionally high rates), safety, and sensible regulatory legislation.

https://www.sweden.org.za/gun-laws-in-sweden.html

Japan too. And many more.

A large percentage of muricans are crazy, willfully ignorant, and dangerously patriotic, and rabidly xenophobic

I don't think regular citizens in Japan are carrying guns but I might be wrong. Some of these places like Sweden are fairly small compared to USA, they have about 10 million people compared to 325 million. I'm not making excuses but it is a difference. We have a a huge open border line too that Australia doesn't have to deal with.

clickie wrote:I don't think regular citizens in Japan are carrying guns but I might be wrong. Some of these places like Sweden are fairly small compared to USA, they have about 10 million people compared to 325 million. I'm not making excuses but it is a difference. We have a a huge open border line too that Australia doesn't have to deal with.

I don't know a single person who has even touched a gun here. Not in 6 years. Never. And guess what? Never heard of a mass shooting either.

guysmiley wrote:

clickie wrote:I don't think regular citizens in Japan are carrying guns but I might be wrong. Some of these places like Sweden are fairly small compared to USA, they have about 10 million people compared to 325 million. I'm not making excuses but it is a difference. We have a a huge open border line too that Australia doesn't have to deal with.

I don't know a single person who has even touched a gun here. Not in 6 years. Never. And guess what? Never heard of a mass shooting either.

Clearly all of Japan-Land is falling victim to the anti-gun agenda.. Those fools, and their false sense of security.

Japan has mental health checks...and guns were banned for years...trying to compare anywhere else to here is silly imho

kv wrote:Japan has mental health checks...and guns were banned for years...trying to compare anywhere else to here is silly imho

Call it a goal, or "to-be state".....

Japan was a heavily armed nation until the post ww2 Era. Their social restructuring was a success. My post included them in the other countries that have high gun ownership with success....success being kids are not regularly carved up by strong long guns

The usa is less than 5% of the world's population, but accounts for over 30% of gun violence but we own school massacres.

What I never seem to hear is anyone from the pro-gun camp coming up with any realistic solutions or ideas, on how to stop all the mass shootings. “It’s my right to bear arms” is not a solution.

If the whole debacle didn’t involve deaths and injuries it would be hilarious.