Photo ID for voting

[LJF]

why isn't there a photo ID required for voting? All they ask for is a signature, really that's it. Beer or cigs need ID, but not to vote. Not sure I follow this logic.

[kv]

Lets say you don't drive.....where is your id? Or you got a dui and they took it no vote for you

[creep]

isn't it a law that you have to carry an id? at least in california i thought it was. if no drivers license you have to have just the dmv id card.

[creep]

isn't it a law that you have to carry an id? at least in california i thought it was. if no drivers license you have to have just the dmv id card.

according to google that is not true.

[JOEinPHX]

I agree that there SHOULD be photo ID required for voting, but if that is the case then photo IDs should be provided for free.

You can't expect people making 7 bucks an hour to take a day off work to pay to take a bus to the DMV to pay 35 bucks for a fucking identification card. You'd basically wiping out 3 days work for them.

Things that also should be provided for free: birth certificates

And the institutions that provide such identifications should be open nights and weekends as well.

[crater]

why isn't there a photo ID required for voting? All they ask for is a signature, really that's it. Beer or cigs need ID, but not to vote. Not sure I follow this logic.

I needed to renew my drivers license back in July. I went to the DMV, but from the time I got my first Oregon drivers license in 2006 until I needed to renew this year, they changed the law about which form of birth certificate that the DMV would find acceptable. The one that I had, which is the one I used to get my first license in this state, was no longer valid.

The guy working at the DMV then proceeded to punch a hole into my license and directed me to use an online site called Vitalchek. He told me that it would take no more than 5 minutes to fill out the forms on that site and after scanning my license, they would send me the correct birth certificate to renew my license in 2 to 3 business days. Only it didn't work out that way. I filled out the forms and Vitalchek kept refusing to accept the scan of my license. I tried every form of ID that I had. Old birth certificate, social security card, car registration, all of which they said they would accept, if I included a state issued photo ID with them. Only the one that I had had a hole in it and they said it was no longer valid due to that hole.

If you care, I can show you all the emails of the back and forth I had with Vitalchek. I went over to the DMV and begged them to just issue me an ID just so I could scan it, because Vitalchek wouldn't accept my drivers license that had a hole punched in it. DMV said I was out of luck and that they wouldn't issue me a temporary ID. This went on from the 7th of July when I first went to the DMV, until September 26th, when after much begging and pleading, I finally convinced a lady in Indiana (my birth state) to issue me a birth certificate my DMV would accept. She also told me that the scan and printed out version of the punched drivers license I emailed to her and eventually snail mailed to them also wasn't acceptable, but after hearing my frustration over all the hoops I had to jump through with Vitalchek and my local DMV, she said she would do it for me.

Had this happened two weeks ago, I would not have been able to vote today, due to my not having the proper ID.

Another stupid thing that happened with this was my local post office for reasons I never got an answer to, returned my birth certificate that was mailed from Indiana back to Indiana. That put an extra week on how long I had to wait for the damn thing.

Now if this happened to me, just an average white dude, I can just imagine how insanely difficult it would be for the people the right wing nut jobs are really trying to keep from voting.

[crater]

I remembered that I made a post about my frustration with the DMV and Vitalchek here

by crater » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:25 pm
If anyone ever recommends the site Vitalchek.com to you, you should just punch them in the face as hard as you can.

Fuck that site and mother fuck the DMV for recommending that site to me.

It's now been almost 1 full month and I've still been unable to renew my drivers license.

[LJF]

Lets say you don't drive.....where is your id? Or you got a dui and they took it no vote for you

How do you get alcohol or cigs without a photo ID? But seriously it shouldn't be harder for me to buy beer. All I have to do is walk in tell them my name, they look it up show it to me with my signature already on the page and ask me to sign next to it so they can compare my signatures. Come on that is a fucking joke. There are two old people checking my signature, great. You want to get into a bar, show photo ID. You want to vote cool sign here. Sorry there needs to be something better.

[LJF]

I agree that there SHOULD be photo ID required for voting, but if that is the case then photo IDs should be provided for free.

You can't expect people making 7 bucks an hour to take a day off work to pay to take a bus to the DMV to pay 35 bucks for a fucking identification card. You'd basically wiping out 3 days work for them.

Things that also should be provided for free: birth certificates

And the institutions that provide such identifications should be open nights and weekends as well.

Nothing is for free, whether pay for it or not someone is. Around here DMV is open I think two nights a week and Saturday mornings.

[Hype]

Voting is so basic to a civil commonwealth that it would break the foundations of it to require anyone to pay to do it. Most people already don't vote, but the fights for the right of women and blacks to vote were so important that it's easy to forget why it would be wrong to place these kind of restrictions on voting. Women, at one time, couldn't own property or work (generally), so how on earth would they get ID to vote, at least, if their husbands or parents didn't want them to?

This is the same reason why it has been a bit tricky trying to figure out how to deal with women who wear face-covering scarves/hijab. Requiring that they show their face, depending on how this is worded/set up, may be tantamount to their simply not being able to vote.

The photo-ID bills have all been brought up by people in whose interest it is to disenfranchise a very specific segment of the population.

So... um... learn some civics and don't think that just because something seems straightforward to you that it is.

Plus, you know, if the issue is whether a person can prove they are who they are, there are already ways to do that without photo-ID.

[creep]

Lets say you don't drive.....where is your id? Or you got a dui and they took it no vote for you

How do you get alcohol or cigs without a photo ID? But seriously it shouldn't be harder for me to buy beer. All I have to do is walk in tell them my name, they look it up show it to me with my signature already on the page and ask me to sign next to it so they can compare my signatures. Come on that is a fucking joke. There are two old people checking my signature, great. You want to get into a bar, show photo ID. You want to vote cool sign here. Sorry there needs to be something better.

do you honestly think there is voter fraud going on where people are impersonating someone else to cast that one vote??? why else would you want id's?

by the way i don't know how old you are but i maybe only get carded 1 out of 10 times.

[Hype]

It really bothers me that LJF thinks purchasing controlled substances is equivalent to voting. The reason for requiring ID for purchasing alcohol and tobacco has nothing to do with identifying yourself in general, it has to do with preventing children from purchasing addictive, harmful substances. Universal suffrage guarantees everyone over 18 the right to vote. There is no universal right to buy beer.

I am really trying to stay patient in this thread, but I'm pretty angry that people exist who don't understand the very basic foundations of liberalism.

[LJF]

Lets say you don't drive.....where is your id? Or you got a dui and they took it no vote for you

How do you get alcohol or cigs without a photo ID? But seriously it shouldn't be harder for me to buy beer. All I have to do is walk in tell them my name, they look it up show it to me with my signature already on the page and ask me to sign next to it so they can compare my signatures. Come on that is a fucking joke. There are two old people checking my signature, great. You want to get into a bar, show photo ID. You want to vote cool sign here. Sorry there needs to be something better.

do you honestly think there is voter fraud going on where people are impersonating someone else to cast that one vote??? why else would you want id's?

by the way i don't know how old you are but i maybe only get carded 1 out of 10 times.

Sure why not, probably not that likely but is really too much to ask for proof of who you are to vote? 43, don't get carder often. At a casino they ask for ID. There are places that do or by law should ask for ID.

It's probably harder to get a library card.

I know I'm just this crazy guy wanting people to actually prove who they are so they can do something as important as vote. Just another crazy right-wing gun carrying white guy. Not really I don't even own a gun, but I like the right to get one if I want. That is after the back ground check and regristration and whatever else I would need to do.

[LJF]

It really bothers me that LJF thinks purchasing controlled substances is equivalent to voting. The reason for requiring ID for purchasing alcohol and tobacco has nothing to do with identifying yourself in general, it has to do with preventing children from purchasing addictive, harmful substances. Universal suffrage guarantees everyone over 18 the right to vote. There is no universal right to buy beer.

I am really trying to stay patient in this thread, but I'm pretty angry that people exist who don't understand the very basic foundations of liberalism.

I have to say dealing with you Is never pleasant. You have to be one of the most arrogant people.

I never said anyone shouldn't vote or have the right to vote. I just think there should be more to it besides signing my name.

[Hype]

It really bothers me that LJF thinks purchasing controlled substances is equivalent to voting. The reason for requiring ID for purchasing alcohol and tobacco has nothing to do with identifying yourself in general, it has to do with preventing children from purchasing addictive, harmful substances. Universal suffrage guarantees everyone over 18 the right to vote. There is no universal right to buy beer.

I am really trying to stay patient in this thread, but I'm pretty angry that people exist who don't understand the very basic foundations of liberalism.

I have to say dealing with you never pleasant. You have to be one of the most arrogant people.

I never said anyone shouldn't vote or have the right to vote. I just think there should be more to it besides signing my name.

It's not arrogance. You don't understand why universal suffrage is different than almost anything else in a liberal democracy. You are an ignoramus.

[LJF]

It really bothers me that LJF thinks purchasing controlled substances is equivalent to voting. The reason for requiring ID for purchasing alcohol and tobacco has nothing to do with identifying yourself in general, it has to do with preventing children from purchasing addictive, harmful substances. Universal suffrage guarantees everyone over 18 the right to vote. There is no universal right to buy beer.

I am really trying to stay patient in this thread, but I'm pretty angry that people exist who don't understand the very basic foundations of liberalism.

I have to say dealing with you never pleasant. You have to be one of the most arrogant people.

I never said anyone shouldn't vote or have the right to vote. I just think there should be more to it besides signing my name.

It's not arrogance. You don't understand why universal suffrage is different than almost anything else in a liberal democracy. You are an ignoramus.

What does that mean?

[Hype]

It really bothers me that LJF thinks purchasing controlled substances is equivalent to voting. The reason for requiring ID for purchasing alcohol and tobacco has nothing to do with identifying yourself in general, it has to do with preventing children from purchasing addictive, harmful substances. Universal suffrage guarantees everyone over 18 the right to vote. There is no universal right to buy beer.

I am really trying to stay patient in this thread, but I'm pretty angry that people exist who don't understand the very basic foundations of liberalism.

I have to say dealing with you never pleasant. You have to be one of the most arrogant people.

I never said anyone shouldn't vote or have the right to vote. I just think there should be more to it besides signing my name.

It's not arrogance. You don't understand why universal suffrage is different than almost anything else in a liberal democracy. You are an ignoramus.

What does that mean?

It means not only have you not read Locke, Rousseau, or Paine, but you don't even have second-hand knowledge of them.

In 1792-95, Paine wrote this:

‘the right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery, for slavery consists in being subject to the will of another, and he that has not a vote in the election of representatives is in this case.

If you can't understand why you can't put conditions on a central, universal right, then basically the state should probably just not bother protecting you.

[LJF]

It really bothers me that LJF thinks purchasing controlled substances is equivalent to voting. The reason for requiring ID for purchasing alcohol and tobacco has nothing to do with identifying yourself in general, it has to do with preventing children from purchasing addictive, harmful substances. Universal suffrage guarantees everyone over 18 the right to vote. There is no universal right to buy beer.

I am really trying to stay patient in this thread, but I'm pretty angry that people exist who don't understand the very basic foundations of liberalism.

I have to say dealing with you never pleasant. You have to be one of the most arrogant people.

I never said anyone shouldn't vote or have the right to vote. I just think there should be more to it besides signing my name.

It's not arrogance. You don't understand why universal suffrage is different than almost anything else in a liberal democracy. You are an ignoramus.

What does that mean?

It means not only have you not read Locke, Rousseau, or Paine, but you don't even have second-hand knowledge of them.

In 1792-95, Paine wrote this:

‘the right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery, for slavery consists in being subject to the will of another, and he that has not a vote in the election of representatives is in this case.

No but I''ve read Dr. Seuss and I really enjoy his work.

Never said anyone shouldn't have the right to vote, I said I think photo ID should be required. There is a difference, right?

[Hype]

No. You haven't understood what a 'right' is.

[Pandemonium]

I don't know what it's like for anyone else, but when I vote at my local polling place like I did tonight, I have to give my name which the person pulls up on a thick stack of sheets listing local registered voters. I have to sign my name and my address on a separate list which the polling person cross references to her sheet. No ID. While I agree there is room for scamming the system, it seems a lot of work to do so for each individual vote. From a cheaters perspective, it would be easier and more effective to simply falsify the actual votes as done through electronic voting booths than use false identities.

I'm not totally against requiring State/Federal ID to vote, but it would have to be free and easy to obtain. As already mentioned, there's all sorts of pitfalls going through the usual DMV route to get a license or state ID. I spent most of an afternoon helping my son get his first ID a couple months ago - it reminded me that one of the greatest benefits of having a clean driving record is that I can do all that shit by mail. Voting should be the most painless, easy thing any citizen should be able to do. I don't care if you mow lawns or are the CEO of Microsoft, no one should have to go through the bullshit to vote you have to deal with to get a driver's license.

[Hype]

See, the problem is that it isn't an issue of whether the populace wants it or not. It's a tenet of the system that allows democratic representation in the first place. So it really doesn't matter who does or doesn't think people should have to show ID to vote, the point is that if you did have to show ID, and there weren't a tax-funded state-issued ID card (maybe like voter registration cards up here in Canada -- do they have these in the US?) and contingency conditions for those who have lost their cards, or ID, or whatever, then it wouldn't be a democracy, it would be something else... an "ID-ocracy". (one "I" away from Idiocracy...)

[perkana]

We have them too here in Mexico.

[LJF]

I admit I didn't fully think of the logistics to getting a photo ID, but cut me some slack since I'm an ignoramus, I still stand by my thought there has to a better system besides, Hi my name is LJF and sign a form. I also still think AS is unpleasant to deal with, but whatever. Happy day to all.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... -election/

[creep]

I admit I didn't fully think of the logistics to getting a photo ID, but cut me some slack since I'm an ignoramus, I still stand by my thought there has to a better system besides, Hi my name is LJF and sign a form. I also still think AS is unpleasant to deal with, but whatever. Happy day to all.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... -election/

according to that article the issue is with the registration process and not someone voting as someone else.

We also find that one of the favorite policies advocated by conservatives to prevent voter fraud appears strikingly ineffective. Nearly three quarters of the non-citizens who indicated they were asked to provide photo identification at the polls claimed to have subsequently voted.

maybe look at the registration process instead??

[farrellgirl99]

With only 40% of the eligible population even bothering to vote for midterm elections, I don't think voter fraud is a real problem anyway. People don't take voting seriously. Hyping up the need to protect the "democratic process" from fraud is just a bunch of bologna to disenfranchise people.

Unrelated, and I don't want to open up a can of worms here, but it's like when people freak out about people gaming the welfare system when fraud isn't that big a problem (estimated 2% fraud including petty fraud).