Peshawar School Masacre

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SR
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Peshawar School Masacre

#1 Post by SR » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:16 am

Pakistani Taliban is credited.....145 dead mainly students

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/17/world ... .html?_r=0

At this point I ask, What would Israel do?

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Hype
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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#2 Post by Hype » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:29 am


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SR
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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#3 Post by SR » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:33 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:Or, what would Putin do?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_sch ... age_crisis
Without reading, create a brilliant web of scenarios that when reviewed create much more than reasonable doubts about culpability or responsibility all while reveling in being the best stealth terrorist ever.

I'll take Israel's ideas.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#4 Post by Hype » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:44 am

I'm not sure how to treat these cases, except similarly (if not identically) to non-politically-motivated hostage/mass-killing scenarios. I don't think there's a way to operate that can make things go well. I think we're stuck with hope and fear.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#5 Post by Larry B. » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:04 pm

SR wrote:At this point I ask, What would Israel do?
That's always the wrong question. I'm not even sure if you are serious (hopefully you are not.)

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#6 Post by Hype » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:02 pm

Larry B. wrote:
SR wrote:At this point I ask, What would Israel do?
That's always the wrong question. I'm not even sure if you are serious (hopefully you are not.)
Your first sentence is too universal to be a sound principle. There's no grounds for asserting that every political action on the part of the Israeli government (i.e., "what Israel do") is always such that asking what Israel would do in a given case would always be wrong. That said, it might be helpful for SR to explain why he thinks Israel would be instructive here.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#7 Post by SR » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:21 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
SR wrote:At this point I ask, What would Israel do?
That's always the wrong question. I'm not even sure if you are serious (hopefully you are not.)
Your first sentence is too universal to be a sound principle. There's no grounds for asserting that every political action on the part of the Israeli government (i.e., "what Israel do") is always such that asking what Israel would do in a given case would always be wrong. That said, it might be helpful for SR to explain why he thinks Israel would be instructive here.
Israel, since the 70's has taken a very proactive approach to threat, and attacks alike. At this point, after a school massacre, US built F16's would be in the air destroying anything that resembled a Taliban fortress.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#8 Post by Hype » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:25 pm

Okay, so maybe one explanation (speculatively) is that government officials in Pakistan are supported by, supportive of, in collusion with, or just plain afraid, of the Taliban, especially since the Pakistan/Afghanistan border, and the security of people living near it, are basically non-existent.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#9 Post by SR » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:31 pm

Another is maybe the Taliban is terrified of Israel....a staunch ally of the west, and the clearest representation of the west in the middle east.

They seem like a very logical target, yet not even a peep threat, ever, from these barbarians. Retaliation would be swift and most severe.

Frankly, I am just fucking tired of reading this shit. As much as I despise Sam Harris, I am very tempted to read Waking Up

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#10 Post by LJF » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:17 pm

SR wrote:Another is maybe the Taliban is terrified of Israel....a staunch ally of the west, and the clearest representation of the west in the middle east.

They seem like a very logical target, yet not even a peep threat, ever, from these barbarians. Retaliation would be swift and most severe.

Frankly, I am just fucking tired of reading this shit. As much as I despise Sam Harris, I am very tempted to read Waking Up

Sorry thread jack a bit here. I've read two interesting books recently, three magic words by uell Andersen and divine science: it's principle and practice. Currently reading power within you by Eric butterworth.

Been staying away from here for a little I felt for me there was too much negativity I was being drawn into. So I took a step back. Trying to get back into the positive energy of things, it's there.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#11 Post by creep » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:36 pm

LJF wrote:
Been staying away from here for a little I felt for me there was too much negativity I was being drawn into. So I took a step back. Trying to get back into the positive energy of things, it's there.
good positive thread to make your return.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#12 Post by Hype » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:15 am

SR wrote:Another is maybe the Taliban is terrified of Israel....a staunch ally of the west, and the clearest representation of the west in the middle east.

They seem like a very logical target, yet not even a peep threat, ever, from these barbarians. Retaliation would be swift and most severe.

Frankly, I am just fucking tired of reading this shit. As much as I despise Sam Harris, I am very tempted to read Waking Up
I get the same exhaustion. We're living in an era where the news isn't *just* another show, it's an always-on infinitely frequent status update and everyone you know is an activist about everything all the time. That would make anyone tired. But the world was like this before we had social media -- we're just now getting things in real-time.

I think there are cases for military intervention, but not out of fear or hatred. I think it's a very good thing that many people still remember an Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan where things were better, women were more free, and so on... And I think we ought to be playing that for all it's worth, pumping money and resources and people into education and healthcare as hard as we can and with as much secular influence as we can, until it's inconceivable to support the Taliban (or the Tea Party, for that matter).

Just look at Bangladesh for an example of how quickly and how much things can change within a generation.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#13 Post by Everybody's Friend » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:17 am

creep wrote:
LJF wrote:
Been staying away from here for a little I felt for me there was too much negativity I was being drawn into. So I took a step back. Trying to get back into the positive energy of things, it's there.
good positive thread to make your return.
:lol:

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#14 Post by Larry B. » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:40 am

SR wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
SR wrote:At this point I ask, What would Israel do?
That's always the wrong question. I'm not even sure if you are serious (hopefully you are not.)
Your first sentence is too universal to be a sound principle. There's no grounds for asserting that every political action on the part of the Israeli government (i.e., "what Israel do") is always such that asking what Israel would do in a given case would always be wrong. That said, it might be helpful for SR to explain why he thinks Israel would be instructive here.
Israel, since the 70's has taken a very proactive approach to threat, and attacks alike. At this point, after a school massacre, US built F16's would be in the air destroying anything that resembled a Taliban fortress.
Israel is a terrorist state, man. Isn't your country supposed to be fighting those? Or is it possible that a big part of your population (yourself included) have been confused to the point that you have no idea what is or isn't terrorism and who exactly are the bad guys?

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#15 Post by kv » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:21 am

is this the start of larry b jew hate again? :hs:

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#16 Post by Larry B. » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:08 am

Nope, just stating a fact :noclue:

Criticism towards Israel is not the same as anti-semitism, you know?

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#17 Post by Hype » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:39 am

Larry B. wrote:Nope, just stating a fact :noclue:

Criticism towards Israel is not the same as anti-semitism, you know?
Criticism and facts are not the same thing.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#18 Post by SR » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:43 am

Larry B. wrote:
SR wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
SR wrote:At this point I ask, What would Israel do?
That's always the wrong question. I'm not even sure if you are serious (hopefully you are not.)
Your first sentence is too universal to be a sound principle. There's no grounds for asserting that every political action on the part of the Israeli government (i.e., "what Israel do") is always such that asking what Israel would do in a given case would always be wrong. That said, it might be helpful for SR to explain why he thinks Israel would be instructive here.
Israel, since the 70's has taken a very proactive approach to threat, and attacks alike. At this point, after a school massacre, US built F16's would be in the air destroying anything that resembled a Taliban fortress.
Israel is a terrorist state, man. Isn't your country supposed to be fighting those? Or is it possible that a big part of your population (yourself included) have been confused to the point that you have no idea what is or isn't terrorism and who exactly are the bad guys?
I don't think a savage response to a group who can order the murder of hundreds of children is wrong.

I am aware of some ruthless behavior on the part of the Israelis. Hence, my exasperated, last resort hypothetical question, 'what would Israel do"? They have a right to be a sovereign state, free of threat and terror themselves.....my post was but a direct and singular response to the Peshawar massacre, not a referendum on global politics.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#19 Post by SR » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:51 am

Though I am pleased you took this down this road.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#20 Post by Bandit72 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:54 pm

This was an horrific and appalling act of terror. But doesn't violence beget violence? The drone attacks on the frontier of Pakistan which has killed many children seems to have played a significant role in these attacks. The Taliban (or Islamic State) are no ambassadors to Islam. Is it always going to be a case of you did this so we're going to do this? When does it end? Probably never as this thought process has been around for centuries. It's fucked up.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#21 Post by SR » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:16 pm

Yes, it does. Israel, though feared, is an example though that oversimplifies of course.

I must admit this event, Scotland, and sandy hook bring out a lust for pure vengeance in me.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#22 Post by Hype » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:37 am

Bandit72 wrote: Probably never as this thought process has been around for centuries.
Pretty sure that's an understatement on several counts. It's not a thought process, it's an emotional reaction, and it didn't arise randomly a few centuries ago, it seems to exist in other animals as well. It's an evolutionary strategy, and not a particularly nice one.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#23 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:16 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Bandit72 wrote: Probably never as this thought process has been around for centuries.
Pretty sure that's an understatement on several counts. It's not a thought process, it's an emotional reaction, and it didn't arise randomly a few centuries ago, it seems to exist in other animals as well. It's an evolutionary strategy, and not a particularly nice one.
Surely emotional feeling is part of your thought process? In humans anyway. The attack was planned, ergo they thought about what they were going to do and how they were going to go about doing it. I agree that if, for example, you are with a friend and your friend is attacked you would 'instinctively' react.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#24 Post by Hype » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:41 am

Thoughts and emotions aren't separate, but reactions needn't be generated by a mechanism once we understand which one, if we can determine a better path.

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Re: Peshawar School Masacre

#25 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:47 am

....if you like to think rationally. Having some kind of fanatical religious fantasy drilled into you from when you were a child probably isn't the best start in life.

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