Donald Trump running for President.

[chaos]

Well now there are as many polls as there are candidates.

[mockbee]

Well, what I said was that there's an undercurrent of progressive stuff *beyond* presidential candidates (hence Warren, Sanders, etc).

Well, what's different about that from the last 60+ years? Perot, Henry A. Wallace, Debbs and a plethora of third tier players? I'm saying it's all the same.

I don't understand your Howard Dean reference, since he was the leading Dem. candidate in 2004 until he screamed like a girl and got ridiculed out of an otherwise strong campaign.

Dean was never "leading" he had a very strong tailwind of support and had a great campaign until the hiccup of not being ready for the Big Show. He was definitely an outsider grassroots candidate who very few people took seriously (only serious for less than a month like Chaos pointed out)

[mockbee]

I don't understand your Howard Dean reference, since he was the leading Dem. candidate in 2004 until he screamed like a girl and got ridiculed out of an otherwise strong campaign.

I am not sure why you think he was ever leading. Do you mean before any actual primary/caucus votes? After the Iowa and NH fiascos, he ended up winning the Vermont primary (but he had dropped out of the race by then).

I meant before any of the primary votes. Isn't that where we are now?

Okay, so Dean was a player "now" or even until the primaries, but what good did that do? We got Kerry, he was terrible. Terrible awful, he couldn't even be against the disastrous, at the time, War in Iraq or the "War on Terror" He had ample ammunition to be a stalwart for progressive politics (anti-war/health care) but laid down and died, then lost.

Maybe that made Obama possible, but there again, I think he just benefitted from bush being so, so bad and the novelty factor. Not because he was actually a strong candidate. And you might say, well, we got the health care, well, sort of, kind of, holding on by a thread with the upcoming supreme court ruling......and I have never seen the likes of the backlash to it. People are nuts. They will support the provisions in the health care law tooth and nail, but when you wrap it up and call it "universal" people blow a gasket......

[Hype]

This is hairsplitting, and it's not even the hair I was trying to talk about. It's not about the cavalcade of third-party or fringe candidates that might or might not get some media attention in any given year. I was trying to draw attention to the fact that there have been some consistent voices pushing progressive views into the mainstream even in non-election years, at least since the 2008 financial crisis.

[Pandemonium]

LOL, at least Trump is keeping his promise to create jobs:

"Donald Trump Campaign Offered Actors $50 to Cheer for Him at Presidential Announcement"

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/d ... ors-803161

[mockbee]

This is hairsplitting, and it's not even the hair I was trying to talk about. It's not about the cavalcade of third-party or fringe candidates that might or might not get some media attention in any given year. I was trying to draw attention to the fact that there have been some consistent voices pushing progressive views into the mainstream even in non-election years, at least since the 2008 financial crisis.

But what point are you trying to make? That this is different from pre-2008? I am saying it's the same.

I remember going to a Ralph Nader rally in 2001, an off election year!, 7,000 people paid a minimum of $10, I think I paid $25 to be a nice guy.

That was awesome, but then 9/11 happened and it was a shit show in American politics for the next decade plus, still reeling from that one. We'll see if we can finally climb out of that hole. We just, in 1990-2000 started climbing out of the cold war hole and it was exciting to see if it could continue.

Ralph Does the Rose Garden


Editorial


You've got to hand it to Ralph Nader -- grudgingly, if you're a die-hard Naderphobic Democrat, or perhaps even gleefully, if you're a rock-ribbed Republican.
Both mainstream political parties couldn't help but sit up and notice the events of Saturday night at Portland's Rose Garden. Nader, the former Green Party presidential candidate, drew 7,000 cheering people to the arena for a new kind of "civic festival" that he promises will sweep the nation.

7,000 Pay to Rally with Ralph Nader in Oregon
The Oregonian 8/5/01


For a '60s icon ridiculed only a year ago in this newspaper for being "a quart low on charisma," Saturday night's accomplishment was astonishing. Most who attended paid up to $10 a head. They showed up in the middle of the dog days of summer. And unlike the Nader rally that drew 10,000 to Memorial Coliseum nearly a year ago, this one happened without the impetus of a national election.

Celebrities Eddie Vedder, Jello Biafra and Danny Glover helped the draw, no doubt, but this was really Nader's show.

"You just have to ask yourself," he told the crowd, "is anyone else doing this, is anybody else bringing out thousands of people?"

The answer is no -- nobody is, unless you count George W. Bush, whose ascendancy to the presidency is bitterly attributed by many Democrats to Nader's role as spoiler in the extraordinarily close 2000 election. His third-party candidacy drew what Portland pollster Tim Hibbitts called "the 'bleep-you' vote," and it cost Al Gore dearly.

By focusing on Nader, though, his critics risk missing the main lesson of Saturday night's remarkable happening. Sure, the gaunt, dour-looking man in the rumpled clothes is an easy target for derision. Many find him to be preachy, arrogant, egotistical and disturbingly angry -- "Darth Vader in a cheap blue suit," as a liberal columnist once described him.

But the Rose Garden rally, though Ralph Nader's shining hour, wasn't really about him. It was about Green Party politics and the hard work of a lot of Oregonians who find meaning in Nader's condemnation of the country's two main political parties, what he calls "this duopoly that's undermining American democracy."

We don't share Nader's dark vision of "one corporate party with two heads wearing the same makeup." Healthy, fundamental differences still remain between the Democratic and Republican camps. Nonetheless, some Americans on both sides of the political aisle feel frustrated by the powerful forces that tug elected leaders toward the middle ground embraced by most mainstream American voters. That explains the considerable appeal of mavericks like Jesse Ventura, John McCain and, less recently, Ross Perot.

Whether Nader can ever ignite a phenomenon beyond the thorn-in-the-side role remains to be seen. But Saturday night in Portland, his Green Party supporters showed that amazing things can happen through grass-roots activism -- that a relatively small number of activists can have a large impact through hard work and smart organizing.

Nader's dream of a nationwide outbreak of such "civic festivals" may never spread beyond the borders of Oregon -- or the boundaries of Portland, for that matter. But the vitality Saturday night was real, and it will echo as a testament to the impressive energy of the city's Green faithful.

[Hype]

As I said, Nader (perpetual fringe presidential candidate) just isn't the kind of thing I'm talking about.

There are people actually writing policy and occupying positions in the government who are further left than the American norm. That's all I was talking about. The rise of the Daily Show, Colbert, and Last Week have all helped.

[mockbee]

There are people actually writing policy and occupying positions in the government who are further left than the American norm.

Name some, outside of Sanders and Warren. I am seriously interested.

We have always had folks like Kirsten Gillibrand, Al Franken, Patrick Leahy and a little while back Kucinich, Paul Wellstone, Jerry Brown, etc.....

[Hype]

There are people actually writing policy and occupying positions in the government who are further left than the American norm.

Name some, outside of Sanders and Warren. I am seriously interested.

We have always had folks like Kirsten Gillibrand, Al Franken, Patrick Leahy and a little while back Kucinich, Paul Wellstone, Jerry Brown, etc.....

Kucinich is another one of those fringe folks. And yeah, of course there have always been progressives. But the past 35 years have been characterized by a hard-right swing, even for the Dems. Both Clintons would be right-wing by Canadian standards. Look back to 2008 to see this sentiment expressed frankly: http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeolog ... left-wing/

Here's an article from 2012 that suggests that there's something nascent: http://www.newstatesman.com/north-ameri ... -socialist
(The names there are mostly familiar...)

What I had in mind was the people involved in things like this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... on-bureau/

[Romeo]

apparently his hair is out campaigning and it's poisonous

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/1 ... 94246.html

[Artemis]

Looks like everybody is firing Donald Trump.

http://gawker.com/a-comprehensive-list- ... socialflow

Noted asshole Donald Trump recently made asshole history, giving a goddamn presidential campaign announcement so racist that the network responsible for Outsourced was uncomfortable remaining associated with him.

NBC, however, is just one of many entities that have distanced themselves from Trump since he asserted Mexican immigrants were criminals and rapists last month. Here, for your reading pleasure, is a current list of everyone who has decided to dump the Trump.

Univision

Date of Break-up: June 25

Announcement: “We see first-hand the work ethic, love for family, strong religious values and the important role Mexican immigrants and Mexican-Americans have had and will continue to have in building the future of our country. We will not be airing the Miss USA pageant on July 12th or working on any other projects tied to the Trump Organization.”

Trump’s Response: “Under the contract, Univision is required to broadcast the [Miss USA] pageant live on television in Spanish,” said Trump in a statement. “While Univision claims its decision came solely in response to comments by Mr. Trump during a June 16, 2015 campaign speech announcing his candidacy for President of the United States, the decision was, in reality, a politically motivated attempt to suppress Mr. Trump’s freedom of speech under the First Amendment.”

Miss USA Co-host Roselyn Sanchez

Date of Break-up: June 25

Announcement: “I was very excited and proud to have been invited to participate in Miss USA, but as a Latina, that is now inconceivable,” said Sanchez in a statement. “Although I am not Mexican, I am Puerto Rican and a proud Latina, and his comments were an insult to our culture. I won’t sponsor anything produced by Donald Trump.”

Miss USA Co-host Cristian de la Fuente

Date of Break-up: June 25

Announcement: “Mr. Trump,

As a Latino I cannot work in an event associated with your name. The statements you made against Mexicans and immigrants show that you are ignorant. It is unacceptable to launch your presidential candidacy creating rhetoric of hatred and discrimination in calling Mexicans drug traffickers and rapists. It’s a shame that such an important institution as Miss USA is now in the hands of a clown.”

NBCUniversal

Date of Break-up: June 29

Announcement: “At NBC, respect and dignity for all people are cornerstones of our values. Due to the recent derogatory statements by Donald Trump regarding immigrants, NBCUniversal is ending its business relationship with Mr. Trump.

To that end, the annual Miss USA and Miss Universe Pageants, which are part of a joint venture between NBC and Trump, will no longer air on NBC. In addition, as Mr. Trump has already indicated, he will not be participating in ‘The Apprentice’ on NBC.”

Trump’s Response: “If NBC is so weak and so foolish to not understand the serious illegal immigration problem in the United States, coupled with the horrendous and unfair trade deals we are making with Mexico, then their contract violating closure of Miss Universe/Miss USA will be determined in court,” said Trump in a statement. “Furthermore, they will stand behind lying Brian Williams, but won’t stand behind people that tell it like it is, as unpleasant as that may be.”

Miss USA Sponsor Farouk Systems

Date of Break-up: June 29

Announcement: “Farouk Systems does not agree with or endorse the statements recently made by Donald Trump about immigrants,” said Farouk Systems CEO Basim Shami. “Our company is multicultural with people of Latin American descent making up a large percentage of our employees and loyal customers. As a company proudly founded on the concept of coming to the USA in pursuit of the American Dream, Mr. Trump’s comments do not and will never reflect our company’s philosophy or practices.”

Mexican Broadcaster Televisa

Date of Break-up: June 29

Announcement: “Mr. Trump hasn’t demonstrated understanding or respect toward Mexican migrants and has offended the entire Mexican population,” said Televisa in a statement. “Televisa isn’t indifferent to these declarations and energetically condemns all forms of discrimination, racism and xenophobia.”

Miss USA Judge Jonathan Scott

Date of Break-up: June 29

Announcement: “I’m an advocate for equality in every sense of the word. It makes my soul ache to hear the hurtful comments being made about the people I love. I have decided to step down as judge for Miss USA as I cannot support the views of the powers that be. This in no way diminishes the hard work of the incredible women who are competing nor the rich 60+ year history of this organization. We are all on this big rock together, and I choose love.”

TV Production Studio Ora TV

Date of Break-up: June 30

Announcement: “[W]orking with such a closed-minded person would simply not work. Trump’s comments are racist,” Ora TV chairman Arturo Elías Ayub told Forbes. “At Grupo Carso, we are 100% inclusive, we respect all people, we respect all sexes, races, religions and nationalities. Trump does not think this way. It is difficult to work with a person that does not share our values.”

Miss USA Co-host Thomas Roberts

Date of Break-up: June 30

Announcement: “Best of luck to all #MissUSA2015 contestants this year & THX to the good people behind the scenes @MissUniverse - been a joy working w/you!”

Miss USA Co-host Cheryl Burke

Date of Break-up: June 30

Announcement: “In light of the recent statements made by Donald Trump and the subsequent decision by NBC to cut ties with Mr. Trump, I cannot in good conscience move forward with participating in this year’s Miss USA Pageant as its co-host. Effective today I have withdrawn from my duties with Miss USA. Although I will not be there in person, I wish all of the contestants much luck as I know how hard they’ve all been working over the last year to try and realize their dreams.”

Miss USA Performer Natalie La Rose

Date of Break-up: June 30

Official Announcement: “Natalie La Rose will no longer be performing at the Miss USA event, a rep for the ‘Somebody’ singer has confirmed with Billboard.”

Macy’s Department Store

Date of Break-up: July 1

Announcement: “We are disappointed and distressed by recent remarks about immigrants from Mexico. We do not believe the disparaging characterizations portray an accurate picture of the many Mexicans, Mexican Americans and Latinos who have made so many valuable contributions to the success of our nation,” Macy’s said. “In light of statements made by Donald Trump, which are inconsistent with Macy’s values, we have decided to discontinue our business relationship with Mr. Trump and will phase-out the Trump menswear collection, which has been sold at Macy’s since 2004.”

Trump’s Response: “I have decided to terminate my relationship with Macy’s because of the pressure being put on them by outside sources,” said Trump in a statement. “While selling Trump ties and shirts at Macy’s is a small business in terms of dollar volume, my principles are far more important and therefore much more valuable.”

The City of New York

Date of Break-up: July 1

Announcement: “We are reviewing Trump contracts with the City. Donald Trump’s remarks were disgusting and offensive, and this hateful language has no place in our city,” said Mayor De Blasio. “Trump’s comments do not represent the values of inclusion and openness that define us as New Yorkers. Our Mexican brothers and sister make up an essential part of this city’s vibrant and diverse community, and we will continue to celebrate and support New Yorkers of every background.”

Miss USA Judge Emmitt Smith

Date of Break-up: July 1

Announcement: “In light of Mr. Trump’s statements and the subsequent decisions made by NBC, I have decided not to participate as a judge in the 2015 Miss USA pageant. Knowing firsthand through my wife, Pat Smith, how much the women prepare for this event, I continue to send my support and best wishes to everyone competing this year.”

Miss USA Performer Flo Rida

Date of Break-up: July 1

Announcement: “Flo Rida had been the highest-profile performer scheduled for Miss USA in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and his representative confirmed Wednesday that he would not perform,” reported the Associated Press.

Miss USA Performer Craig Wayne Boyd

Date of Break-Up: July 1

[creep]

as long as donald and ted cruz stay in the race this is going to be super entertaining. i can not wait for the debates.

[nausearockpig]

as long as donald and ted cruz stay in the race this is going to be super entertaining. i can not wait for the debates.

The mass-debates by these wankers?

[S&M]

Lord have mercy.....I honestly think people dig the straight up talk.....racicist as it may be....The Chris Christie's and Sarah Palins...they talk sum shit!!!...I think dumb minded people gravitate to that shit without really thinking about what they are talking about?....I have members of my own family that celebrate these piece of crap people as they are looking out for us?....maybe a few dem'z need to be a bit forward?.......This next election scares me....because it's not about who yer voting for but against.......hillbilly shit....spooked!!!!

[creep]

as long as donald and ted cruz stay in the race this is going to be super entertaining. i can not wait for the debates.

cruz is the oddest guy ever

[Angry Canine]

It's going to be voting against somebody again, not for anyone.

I wish Warren would run, but she wouldn't have a realistic chance against Hillary, so that would just be an expensive effort in futility.

Hopefully Trump is already monkeywrenching the whole Republican effort.

I would never go so far as to call myself a Democrat, but I'm very much anti-republican.

[Hype]

It's going to be voting against somebody again, not for anyone.

I wish Warren would run, but she wouldn't have a realistic chance against Hillary, so that would just be an expensive effort in futility.

Hopefully Trump is already monkeywrenching the whole Republican effort.

I would never go so far as to call myself a Democrat, but I'm very much anti-republican.

You should never vote *for* anyone. There's no mechanism in democracy that reinforces positive selection. The only mechanisms of selection in democracy are effectively negative. The ability to get rid of bad candidates/bad leaders peacefully, and with regularity is probably the single most important feature of democracy. Democratically and constitutionally responsive court systems and policy-writing are probably second. Voting isn't a means of choosing who you want to lead precisely because you can't rely on the populace to make a *positively* informed intelligent choice, and nor would you want to. This would more than likely amount to a patrician council of unelected intellectual elites running the show. What we want is a way for the media and the courts to help us avoid the worst leaders, or the worst types of leaders (in the case of voting against policies or parties).

[Bandit72]

Is it true that if you are an atheist you can't run for presidency?

[chaos]

No.

There is nothing in the constitution of federal law banning it.

With regard to local politics, according to a Supreme Court ruling, states are not allowed to have a "religious test" for holding office; however, there are 7 states who still have laws on the books (with regard to state/local offices). I doubt these laws could be enforced though, but who knows with the circus we have today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/us/in ... times&_r=1

The six states besides Maryland with language in their constitutions that prohibits people who do not believe in God from holding office are Arkansas, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas.

[Bandit72]

Skip to 14.46



My bad....although Dawkins is adamant you wouldn't get elected.

[Hype]

Skip to 14.46



My bad....although Dawkins is adamant you wouldn't get elected.

It's not just Dawkins being adamant. Dawkins is aware of the data we have on this.

Americans consistently report being more likely to vote for a gay person, a muslim, a black person, a woman, than an atheist.

Of course, 'atheist' isn't really a well-understood term, even among atheists. Historically, and even now, it's assumed that 'atheist' means/implies something like moral relativism and nihilism, because most people think God makes things good and bad, or God's judgment is the mechanism that prevents people from doing bad things, so a person admitting that they don't believe in that thing makes these people think that that person will do bad things without fear.

Of course, these people just need to read Plato's Euthyphro or shut up.

It probably doesn't help that Ayn Rand was an atheist, nor that one of the heads of the American Atheists (Madalyn Murray O'Hare) was considered a pretty mean person (and was also murdered).

There are millions of Americans who don't know people who aren't like themselves, and are exposed to only one set of extremely narrow beliefs. 30 million fundamentalist Christians alone...

It's not surprising that people aren't likely to vote for someone who is known to be an atheist. Of course, conversely, Americans have certainly voted for and/or elected many people who are atheists, where no one knew that about them, probably because it just never came up.

[Angry Canine]

Is it true that if you are an atheist you can't run for presidency?

You can run. But you can't win unless you pretend to be Christian. There's just too large of a segment of the population that thinks that way.

[Romeo]

Trump your cat

http://www.today.com/pets/trumpyourcat- ... air-t31961

I'm going to do this later. My cat is shedding like a mofo and I brush him once a day

[Artemis]

You will likely want to spritz your eyes with Windex after you watch this.


http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/08 ... liani-drag

You Can't Unsee This Video of Donald Trump Groping Rudy Giuliani

Donald Trump has long had a boorish reputation when it comes to his treatment of women, something that is now back in the spotlight thanks to the real estate mogul's tense exchange with Megyn Kelly at Thursday's GOP debate and subsequent tirade against the Fox News host.

It turns out that even Trump ally Rudy Giuliani, who recently termed Trump's candidacy "refreshing," once called out The Donald for his loutish behavior. Of course Giuliani, then New York's mayor, was also dressed in drag at the time and was appearing with Trump in a skit filmed for the "Inner Circle Press Dinner" in 2000. In the clip, Trump full-on gropes Giuliani, who exclaims, "Oh, you dirty boy," and slaps the tycoon. Warning: you can't unsee this.

[mockbee]

Trump has expanded his lead by half a dozen points. Bush no longer in the top 5, barely hanging onto top 10 status.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/n ... ad-n406766


Second place is "Machine" Gun Bacon Ted Cruz!

But.... that's not a machine gun.............