Donald Trump running for President.

[Artemis]

[perkana]

There you go, the first racist dumbasses inspired by the rants of this douchebag...
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-d ... -comments/

[SR]

The traction and consistent upswing in popularity is a very real reflection of the dumbing down of all media in this country. Trump, time after time, speaks like an American good ol boy who's had a few shots in a bar...verbal salvos from men with deep seeded anger at their own mediocrity, but with deluded ideas on what greatness is.

[Hype]

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolit ... -heres-why

Some interesting data there... 18% support from GOP voters with a college degree. 30% from GOP voters without a college degree.

For voters of any affiliation, his least negative segment (-4%) is from white working class men and women. His most negative segment is hispanic voters, surprisingly more negative than even 'post-graduates', which I think suggests that at least some form of racial/xenophobic bias is playing a role in people's evaluations of him. Post-graduates are far more likely to be white, so even with high levels of education it appears they are slightly more susceptible to his stupid xenophobic soundbites than hispanic voters are (for obvious reasons -- either they, rightly, take offense to his comments, or they are already supporting Rubio or another candidate who has shown more interest in talking to them) -- pretty good indicator that rationality isn't really a very good measure of political support/power.

Also helpful to keep in mind: "Trump has the highest unfavorable ratings of any 2016 candidate, Democrat or Republican."

I think we just have to hope that the Democratic base (especially black and hispanic voters) can rally behind Hillary at somewhere close to the degree they did behind Obama. At least in the case of black voters, this may be a problem.

[SR]

I have grave concerns about this election.

[Hype]

I have grave concerns about this election.

I liked Hillary in '08. As a candidate now, I mean, fine... but I'm worried it'll be like Al Gore all over again.

[SR]

I have grave concerns about this election.

I liked Hillary in '08. As a candidate now, I mean, fine... but I'm worried it'll be like Al Gore all over again.

I liked Hillary up until a few months ago. Though I am not so naïve that I do not think that most politicians skate most rules, this email issue really reminded me that the Clinton's have become the mirror image of the Bushs......zero accountability. That didn't work so well with the fuckwit.

[Pandemonium]

I have grave concerns about this election.

I liked Hillary in '08. As a candidate now, I mean, fine... but I'm worried it'll be like Al Gore all over again.

I liked Hillary up until a few months ago. Though I am not so naïve that I do not think that most politicians skate most rules, this email issue really reminded me that the Clinton's have become the mirror image of the Bushs......zero accountability. That didn't work so well with the fuckwit.

I was good with Hillary as a potential candidate until the fallout from the Benghazi Embassy attack. It became pretty clear that there was an abject failure leading right up the chain to Clinton regarding proper security and intelligence for the Embassy and then a later willful coverup that it was an actual planned terrorist attack (remember how it was called a "spontaneous riot" because of that stupid Mohammad YouTube movie?). And then Hillary losing her cool during the hearings about the attack and claiming "it doesn't matter" about the circumstances was just the icing on the cake.

[SR]

I have grave concerns about this election.

I liked Hillary in '08. As a candidate now, I mean, fine... but I'm worried it'll be like Al Gore all over again.

I liked Hillary up until a few months ago. Though I am not so naïve that I do not think that most politicians skate most rules, this email issue really reminded me that the Clinton's have become the mirror image of the Bushs......zero accountability. That didn't work so well with the fuckwit.

I was good with Hillary as a potential candidate until the fallout from the Benghazi Embassy attack. It became pretty clear that there was an abject failure leading right up the chain to Clinton regarding proper security and intelligence for the Embassy and then a later willful coverup that it was an actual planned terrorist attack (remember how it was called a "spontaneous riot" because of that stupid Mohammad YouTube movie?). And then Hillary losing her cool during the hearings about the attack and claiming "it doesn't matter" about the circumstances was just the icing on the cake.

i might have felt the same way, but because fox was the main producer of spin on the story I ran like a Kenyan

[Romeo]

Benghazi was nothing but a political witch hunt

No one cared that in the 8 years Bush was busy ruining America there were 13 embassy attacks and 60 deaths related to the attacks

[farrellgirl99]

Benghazi was nothing but a political witch hunt

No one cared that in the 8 years Bush was busy ruining America there were 13 embassy attacks and 60 deaths related to the attacks

Unrelated to embassy attacks, but I have been researching the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for work and it has been mind blowing to see how inept the Bush administration was and how they just had no fucking clue what they were doing (or rather, didn't care). I knew Bush sucked, but I was younger at the time so didn't understand all the nuances. Now, reading about them, I just can't believe the arrogance and fuckery that went on, particularly with Iraq. And don't even get me started on Katrina.

[Hype]

Benghazi was nothing but a political witch hunt

No one cared that in the 8 years Bush was busy ruining America there were 13 embassy attacks and 60 deaths related to the attacks

Unrelated to embassy attacks, but I have been researching the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for work and it has been mind blowing to see how inept the Bush administration was and how they just had no fucking clue what they were doing (or rather, didn't care). I knew Bush sucked, but I was younger at the time so didn't understand all the nuances. Now, reading about them, I just can't believe the arrogance and fuckery that went on, particularly with Iraq. And don't even get me started on Katrina.

You didn't think that a cokehead fratboy drunk pseudo-cowboy who said things like "I think fish and people can coexist" and choked on a pretzel and couldn't figure out how to open doors was obviously an inept, pathetic, arrogant fuckhead? I mean, yeah, ok, I was there with you (9/11 happened when I was in 10th grade), and I hadn't yet started watching the Daily Show, etc (that became a big thing in university), but I thought we were all pretty sure Bush was a moron -- like, not just a typical Republican "not my party, I'm a Democrat" guy, but an actual, literal, mentally defective human.

[Pandemonium]

You didn't think that a cokehead fratboy drunk pseudo-cowboy who said things like "I think fish and people can coexist" and choked on a pretzel and couldn't figure out how to open doors was obviously an inept, pathetic, arrogant fuckhead? I mean, yeah, ok, I was there with you (9/11 happened when I was in 10th grade), and I hadn't yet started watching the Daily Show, etc (that became a big thing in university), but I thought we were all pretty sure Bush was a moron -- like, not just a typical Republican "not my party, I'm a Democrat" guy, but an actual, literal, mentally defective human.

The thing that compounded the epic post 9/11 fuckup with Bush Jr is that he was surrounded and influenced by otherwise very smart people (although Rumsfeld was arguably even more of an idiot) who had agendas that were VERY bad for the country and the world at large. Dick Cheney was probably the most crafty, arrogant and evil politician in the highest level of US government since Nixon.

[Hype]

I'm not sure what I think about Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice. Both of them seem very bright and quite thoughtful.

[Pandemonium]

I'm not sure what I think about Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice. Both of them seem very bright and quite thoughtful.

Powell was probably the sanest guy in the Bush administration but he was ultimately made the stooge to sell the Iraq invasion to the U.N..

[SR]

Powell was a huge thorn in the back of that unholy trinity. He was the last holdout in the invasion, but when pressed long and hard by those murderers finally caved. His use before the UN was used to show unity, and some sense of reason to Americans as he was widely respected as noble, sane, and 'humane' soldier.

[chaos]

Raymond McGovern and George Tenet warned the Bush administration - Rice included- about an attack. No one listened (Rice had no clue what to do before or after). Richard Clarke was appalled that Cheney wanted to attack Iraq.

There is an excellent document on the Smithsonian Channel, 9/11: The Day That Changed the World.

[Hype]

In some ways I'm not sure we can even imagine what would happen if Donald Trump somehow manages to become president. His public persona is absolutely ridiculous for anyone who isn't in that group of idiots who like empty machismo, but in some ways there's not much difference between his repetitious inane use of 'Make America Great Again' and the successful campaign slogans of the Obama election years... "Yes we can!" is equally stupid and empty, it's just that Obama's speeches suggested that there was a lot behind it, for anyone actually paying attention. But do you really think there wasn't a large segment of Obama voters who didn't pay attention to content and just relied on the slogans and emotion?

As with Bush, any president, no matter how apparently stupid, will be influenced by, or have decisions made in concert with, a whole army of insiders... and it's unclear who they would be in a Trump presidency. It's a nauseating idea on the face of it, but the potential reality doesn't seem clear.

[farrellgirl99]

No, I knew Bush was a complete idiot and dangerous human being. I'm talking more about war strategy/warmongering. I didn't know some of the details about the wars specifically because I was 10 when they started. And even a somewhat smart 10 year old isn't gonna understand how fucking horribly executed something is. I just knew they were bad and he was an idiot. I still remember in 2004 when my class held a mock election and I was one of only 3 people who voted for Gore cause I went to school in a Republican neighborhood The Bush years were dark times.

I don't think Trump will be the nominee, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised by anything since there's no strong Republican candidate. It just seems like the more racist/ethnocentric/misogynist/general batshit Trump gets, the better he polls. It's unbelievable.

[mockbee]

I'm not terribly concerned. Remember Freedom Fries? Well after that we got Obama. You can follow crazy with some reason, but as hype said, "reason" isn't really reason. It's just something we mistake as reason that's more reasonable than the alternative.

If someone was actually reasonable, they wouldn't get anywhere, or be laughed off stage pretty quickly if they did.

[Hype]

I tend to think that really clear-headed, well-meaning, intelligent people stay the hell away from politics, partly because like business, politics is full of Type A/sociopathic shitheads manipulating everyone around them (see: Frank Underwood; any law school [sorry ANR law school folks, but it's true of a significant portion of the population there]). This is really conjecture based on experience and some views I hold about human nature, but I also suspect that sufficiently motivated rational, good people will also tend to stay behind the scenes, like Elizabeth Warren...

Of course, I'm also sure there are exceptions to this... I just don't know who they are. Democracies aren't really built for benevolent, intelligent, leadership. They're structures designed to mitigate the worst leadership and its side effects as much as we can. (I've said that before... just feel like it bears repeating so much... whenever personalities like Trump pop up... it starts to look like everything's broken...)

[Angry Canine]

I remember last election, I was joking that Eric Cartman would make a good President.

And now this time around, we actually do have a cartoon running.

I've always said Idiocracy was set way too far in the future.

[Angry Canine]

I tend to think that really clear-headed, well-meaning, intelligent people stay the hell away from politics, partly because like business, politics is full of Type A/sociopathic shitheads manipulating everyone around them (see: Frank Underwood; any law school [sorry ANR law school folks, but it's true of a significant portion of the population there]). This is really conjecture based on experience and some views I hold about human nature, but I also suspect that sufficiently motivated rational, good people will also tend to stay behind the scenes, like Elizabeth Warren...

Of course, I'm also sure there are exceptions to this... I just don't know who they are. Democracies aren't really built for benevolent, intelligent, leadership. They're structures designed to mitigate the worst leadership and its side effects as much as we can. (I've said that before... just feel like it bears repeating so much... whenever personalities like Trump pop up... it starts to look like everything's broken...)

But those sociopath types seem to find their way to the top positions of government, no matter what system of government is in place, over and over throughout history. It's amazing that the US Republic was not completely dismantled during the early 1900's, or earlier even.

Someone like Warren, or Sanders, is woefully limited in effectiveness in congress. But they'll never be able to get elected to the presidency. The money will always crush them, either in primary or general.

[Matz]

how's Jeb and my 100 bucks doing!? ...just kidding, I thankfully buried that plan...

[Romeo]

Benghazi was nothing but a political witch hunt

No one cared that in the 8 years Bush was busy ruining America there were 13 embassy attacks and 60 deaths related to the attacks

Unrelated to embassy attacks, but I have been researching the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for work and it has been mind blowing to see how inept the Bush administration was and how they just had no fucking clue what they were doing (or rather, didn't care). I knew Bush sucked, but I was younger at the time so didn't understand all the nuances. Now, reading about them, I just can't believe the arrogance and fuckery that went on, particularly with Iraq. And don't even get me started on Katrina.

Considering this is the 10th anniversary of Katrina

"Great Job Brownie"