"Constitutional rights"

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Bandit72
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"Constitutional rights"

#1 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:34 pm

As an 'outsider', I find it hard to understand why 'some' Americans find it hard to accept that having the right to own a gun is a necessity. Yes I'm fully aware that the majority are sane and level headed. And yes I am aware that the majority of Americans who own firearms would probably never use them. But my knowledge of American constitutional history is obviously limited so I am up for being told, by my fellow ANR humans, as to how or why the right to bear arms came into existence. Let's face it, it's fucking ridiculous. In my opinion. Why do you need a gun? Don't get me wrong, it's a no brainer that if you want to kill people, you'll find a way to do it even if you don't have access to firearms. Do firearms and the ease of access to them make it easier? The South Carolina shootings are yet another episode in the 'this has what's happened in the U.S. today that's involved guns'. I'm aware that gun crime is worldwide, and the UK has shocking statistics involving knife crime, but it's always big news over here when there is a U.S. story involving guns.

How many of you stateside own a fire arm and do you feel the law needs to change? Supreme Court or no Supreme Court?

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mockbee
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#2 Post by mockbee » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:59 pm

Bandit72 wrote:As an 'outsider', I find it hard to understand why 'some' Americans find it hard to accept that having the right to own a gun is a necessity. Yes I'm fully aware that the majority are sane and level headed. And yes I am aware that the majority of Americans who own firearms would probably never use them. But my knowledge of American constitutional history is obviously limited so I am up for being told, by my fellow ANR humans, as to how or why the right to bear arms came into existence. Let's face it, it's fucking ridiculous. In my opinion. Why do you need a gun? Don't get me wrong, it's a no brainer that if you want to kill people, you'll find a way to do it even if you don't have access to firearms. Do firearms and the ease of access to them make it easier? The South Carolina shootings are yet another episode in the 'this has what's happened in the U.S. today that's involved guns'. I'm aware that gun crime is worldwide, and the UK has shocking statistics involving knife crime, but it's always big news over here when there is a U.S. story involving guns.

How many of you stateside own a fire arm and do you feel the law needs to change? Supreme Court or no Supreme Court?

Image

That's why Americans find the right necessary. It's in our blood (apparently). We are a very diverse country, so can't speak for everyone. But there is definitely a strong Frontier mentality that I don't think is going away, especially in the middle of the country and the South. As for semi-automatic weapons, I have no idea why those are necessary/desired in civilian hands. I guess because not having them or a right to means a loss of "freedom".

It's not about a need, it's about an identity.

I don't know if tough gun laws would do much about the publisized shooting/tragedies, but I think good restrictions would put a dent in the daily (hourly) accidental shootings that take place in the home. Of course to get there would, in the process, result in a million times more gun sales....... :eyes:

I think I own a couple guns, I am not sure, (left to me by my father-in-law) but I sure as hell am not going to touch them or do anything with them. I have never shot a real gun, just BBs as a kid.

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Bandit72
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#3 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:40 pm

mockbee wrote:It's not about a need, it's about an identity
This reminds me very much of religion. My dad did it, his dad did it, etc....it's been nailed into me....I've got to do it.

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kv
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#4 Post by kv » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:53 pm

All wasted words its never changing unless the government causes a revolution and wins

Btw a simple double action revolver is a semiautomatic

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kv
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#5 Post by kv » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:55 pm

Bandit72 wrote:
mockbee wrote:It's not about a need, it's about an identity
This reminds me very much of religion. My dad did it, his dad did it, etc....it's been nailed into me....I've got to do it.
Or freedom...my dad had it...his dad had it...etc

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Pandemonium
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#6 Post by Pandemonium » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:57 pm

I don't own a gun, never had and very unlikely I ever will. I don't get the mentality of the hardcore gun owners and agree with the outsider's viewpoint it's something pretty unique to the American psyche. Some people point to various countries in the 3rd or 4rth level of Hell that places like Iraq and Syria are now and say "that could be us, sooner than you think... we need weapons to protect ourselves from outside aggressors." Maybe... I've seen stranger things happen in my 56 years on this planet.

But I also don't think new, reactionary, hand-wringing government restrictions on ownership will stop the kind of horrific crimes like last night's church massacre. Where there's a will, there's a way especially so for the deranged fanatic. The thing that's unique about a gun as far as shooting someone is that it's easy to conceal, easy to maintain and operate and do the job intended (kill the other guy... or shoot stop signs on deserted highways) and fairly cheap and easy to procure, legally or illegally. This all adds up to the dirty fact it's easy to spuriously shoot someone - you're hot headed, some fucker cuts you off on the freeway, you grab your semi outta the glove box and take some shots at the faceless stranger in the other car. In the end, a gun is another tool - whether it's target practice on a range, a means of defense for a typical citizen, a weapon for the police or a weapon for the criminal. You can't ban passenger jets because someone used a few of 'em to plow into buildings to kill 3,000 people and more than you can (successfully) ban guns from a population already growing ever closer to outright contempt of their government on a mass scale.

There needs to be better databases, profiling (yes, I said it), tracking and essentially.... Big Brothering by our dear old chain pullers in the government. Make it tougher to get especially certain guns but make it brutal for people who really shouldn't be buying these kind of weapons with extensive background checks. Sure, for some that opens up the "buy it from the guy selling the Glock on the corner behind the bar") but proper surveillance and follow-through will likely put the kibosh on the guy before he gets an itch to visit his wife's new best friend.

Those that are stock piling warehouses full of military grade gear in anticipation of the collapse of the US Government and all out anarchy, fuck.... the invisible brain melting microwaves, poisoned water supply and total nuke pulse electric grid failure will put you down before you can try to bring down that drone hovering over your storm bunker.

We live in a time of abject, ignorant fear. Right here in North America, USA, Canada, Mexico. Bad shit is pulling apart the invisible fabric of our society in so many different ways all we do is play a half-assed game of keep up and hope we don't become collateral damage in some idiots fucked up war when we go to the mall, fly on a plane, ride a bus or just answer the front door or pick up the phone.

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Bandit72
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#7 Post by Bandit72 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:38 am

Thank you for your thoughts Panda. I'm sure there are plenty of people, who like you say, are waiting for anarchy...the breakdown of society. However ridiculous that may sound I'm pretty sure it's not beyond all possibility. But not in the near future. I guess aside from the daily armed robberies and murders involving firearms across the states, incidents like the one has just happened seems to have stemmed from some kind of racial hatred. The ones that are covered over here all follow either that storyline or some political motive. Like I said, if someone wants to comit a crime because they have a problem with the colour of people, or the government, or homophobia, or whatever, then they will always find a way of carrying out some kind of attrocity. But getting a gun given to you for your birthday? What's that all about? It makes the job one hell of a lot easier. The struggles of modern life eh? :sad:

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mockbee
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#8 Post by mockbee » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:26 am

kv wrote:All wasted words its never changing unless the government causes a revolution and wins

Btw a simple double action revolver is a semiautomatic
true, I suppose I meant fully automatic firearms, (I think I 'own' a semiautomatic revolver :confused: )

No idea why anyone would need fully automatic weapons though, or should have the right to have one; outside the context of "I am about to go to war.....like, really really soon!" or "it's my god (country) given right, so I will have one (or twenty if you try to take that right away!)" I would be very curious to know what the forefathers who had a hand in the bill of rights would legislate today, knowing the state of affairs. Specifically the Federalists vs. the anti-Federalists.

Here are the drafts of the Second Amendment. First one approved by the House, second approved by the Senate and third approved by Congress, then ratified.
Fifth Article:
A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the People, being the best security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed, but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.

Fourth Article:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Fourth Article:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Ratified:
December 15, 1791
Second Amendment

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mockbee
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#9 Post by mockbee » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:11 am


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Artemis
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Re: "Constitutional rights"

#10 Post by Artemis » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:43 pm

:nyrexall: DAMN!!! The Daily Show is NOT supposed to make me cry!!!

Jon Stewart is spot on in his commentary.

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