Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

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mockbee
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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#21 Post by mockbee » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:09 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
You're obviously not wrong that actual physical trips are faster now... but there's no obvious extrapolation for what speedier connections does for people, relationships, etc. There's really only conjecture based on broad assumptions, and I find that really uninteresting.
If you don't believe that speedier connections (& processes) necessarily equates to progress (or diminishes progress for that matter) Do you see that any other indicators (that have quantitatively changed over time) would point to any progress in human relations? What hope is there if "progress" does not equate to better situations? And progress seems to only mean, do things faster with more efficiency in our western sensibilities. It makes no difference ones political or cultural affiliations. We all use resources and all affiliate with certain clans and there is no indication that will ever change. Of course, we must always use resources, its the clan part that one might hope could be an outlier.

Evidence from liberals reactions to BLM seem to indicate to me that clans show no political, social or (of course) racial/ethnic biases.

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Angry Canine
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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#22 Post by Angry Canine » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:40 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:I'm pretty sure the printing press and the development of vast sea trade (rather than the silk road) networks and commerce made it possible for a lot of people to know a lot about a lot of new places in the 17th century. I guess I should admit that I keep bringing up the 17th century (and especially the Netherlands) because that's my area of specialization -- I literally get paid to work on the history of ideas in this period, so it's something I can use off the top of my head, but it doesn't really matter what the exact details are since the general point is that it's way more difficult than one might think to try to make claims about what these kinds of advances actually do to the ways that people live and interact with each other. It's one thing to say that some new technology allows faster x or y, or more x or y; it's another thing entirely to say that precisely how that might change people's ways of thinking or dispositions or relationships with one another in substantive ways.

You're obviously not wrong that actual physical trips are faster now... but there's no obvious extrapolation for what speedier connections does for people, relationships, etc. There's really only conjecture based on broad assumptions, and I find that really uninteresting.
Like I said, more than a human lifetime to pan out. We'll be dead for centuries before it plays out and proves right, or wrong. And while it may be conjecture, it's not wild unreasoned conjecture. How many people are growing up now with the two sides of the extended family in two vastly different cultures, and parts of the world, yet both very much in their life. That's both racial, and cultural blending. Even 100 years ago, such children would be effectively severed from one side of the family. Unless they were families of great wealth, with lives that allowed for frequent long ocean voyages. Among the more ordinary people, a mixed marriage would almost always have had family ties of an emigrant virtually severed before the parents of that child even met.

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Hype
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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#23 Post by Hype » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:43 pm

mockbee wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
You're obviously not wrong that actual physical trips are faster now... but there's no obvious extrapolation for what speedier connections does for people, relationships, etc. There's really only conjecture based on broad assumptions, and I find that really uninteresting.
If you don't believe that speedier connections (& processes) necessarily equates to progress (or diminishes progress for that matter) Do you see that any other indicators (that have quantitatively changed over time) would point to any progress in human relations? What hope is there if "progress" does not equate to better situations? And progress seems to only mean, do things faster with more efficiency in our western sensibilities. It makes no difference ones political or cultural affiliations. We all use resources and all affiliate with certain clans and there is no indication that will ever change. Of course, we must always use resources, its the clan part that one might hope could be an outlier.

Evidence from liberals reactions to BLM seem to indicate to me that clans show no political, social or (of course) racial/ethnic biases.
I think that some things have led to real differences in the way that people relate to one another and think about themselves. The medicalization of mental illness is one case that I think has led to some pretty profound progress (though slow and messy and not always helpful). You're right that there's sometimes a conflation of efficiency with rationality and progress (in fact, pretty much all modern economics thinks this and doesn't see a problem with it), but I think it's pretty clear that this doesn't say anything about how human beings actually change and progress and adapt to things. Targets seem to shift but the behaviours of groups seem pretty stable over time.

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farrellgirl99
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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#24 Post by farrellgirl99 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:16 pm

BLM launched a new website tonight with details on reforms they would like to see.

http://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/21/9188729/po ... paign-zero

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mockbee
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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#25 Post by mockbee » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:46 pm

Bernie Sanders and the Black Vote

SEPT. 12, 2015

Charles M. Blow


COLUMBIA, S.C. — Democratic presidential hopeful Senator Bernie Sanders spoke Saturday to a half empty gymnasium at Benedict College in South Carolina. The school is historically black, but the crowd appeared to be largely white.

This underscores the severe challenge facing the Sanders campaign: African-American voters have yet to fully connect to the man and the message.

An August Gallup Poll found that Hillary Clinton’s favorability among African-Americans was 80 percent while Sanders’ was only 23 percent. A full two-thirds of blacks were unfamiliar with Sanders.

This could pose a problem after the contests in overwhelmingly white Iowa and New Hampshire, where Sanders has surged to tie or best Clinton at this point, give way to contests in Southern states with much more sizable black populations.

South Carolina will be the first test. According to The New York Times, 55 percent of South Carolina Democratic primary voters were black in 2008.

Yet current polls show Hillary Clinton with a massive lead over Sanders in the state. And those polls show Vice President Joe Biden leading Sanders, even though Biden has yet to announce whether he’ll run.

That’s why it’s important not only for Sanders to spend more time in the state, but also why it is important for him to pick a venue like Benedict College.

But appearing at the college, a favorite speaking spot for Democratic primary candidates trying to boost their black vote in the state, is by no means a sure path to victory.

Bill Bradley spoke there in 2000 when running against Al Gore. Gore crushed Bradley with 92 percent of the caucus vote. Carol Moseley Braun announced her candidacy there in 2003 but had to withdraw before the primary in the state. Al Sharpton and Wesley Clark spoke at the school in 2004, and both lost the state. In 2008, Clinton visited the school the day before the primary. She only won one county in the state.

Sanders is hoping for better.

There is an earnest, if snappy, aura to Sanders that is laudable and refreshing. One doesn’t sense the stench of ambition or the revolting unctuousness of incessant calculation.

There is an idealistic crusader in the man, possibly to the point of being quixotic, but at least it doesn’t come off as having been corrupted by money or power or the God complex that so often attends those in pursuit of the seat behind the Resolute Desk.

Sanders’s message of revolutionary change to save a flailing middle class and challenge the sprawling influence of what he calls “the billionaire class” has struck a nerve with a fervid following.

I spoke with Senator Sanders by phone on Friday for nearly 30 minutes about his campaign’s need to reach more African-American voters, and I asked if he was worried about this need to broaden his appeal.

While he resisted the word “worried,” he did acknowledge that: “Clearly, if we are going to do well nationally, it’s absolutely imperative that we aggressively reach out and bring the African-American community and the Latino community into our campaign, and that is exactly what we’re working on right now.”

Sanders seemed to understand the challenge ahead of him. He has to win the African-Americans who supported Obama and do so against Clinton’s enormous name identification and the deep connections the Clinton machine has built in the state. And then there’s Biden.

But Sanders’s ability to win Obama’s supporters may have been made difficult by his associations. On Saturday, Sanders campaigned with Dr. Cornel West, who recently issued an endorsement of Sanders.

West’s critique of the president has been so blistering and unyielding — he has call Obama “counterfeit,” the “black face of the American empire,” a verb-ed neologism of the n-word — that it has bordered on petulance and self-parody.

Sanders must bank on his strongest suit: policies. In June, his campaign issued a press release entitled “Sanders’ Agenda for America Helps Minorities” that touted his civil rights record as well as included economic remedies like raising the minimum wage and providing tuition-free college.

Part of Sanders’ problem is that he hasn’t been able to properly promote his message of helping minorities.

I ask Sanders if he believes that the coverage he has gotten has been fair and equitable. Rather than complaining about the quantity of coverage, he complained about the quality, what he called “the soap opera aspect of politics.”

He explained: “So if I go up on a stage and I slip on a banana peel, do you think that will make the front page of the paper? Will it be on CNN? Probably will. Meanwhile, I have talked in 20 different speeches that 51 percent of young African-American kids are unemployed and underemployed. Do you know how much coverage that’s gotten? How much?”

He answered his own question:

“Every single speech that I give I talk about that. I don’t know that it’s made the newspapers yet.”

Well actually, The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post have published articles that included essentially that statistic from Sanders. In addition, NPR, ABC News, Newsweek, the Huffington Post, The Week, National Review, RealClearPolitics, Salon, Vox and Alternet have published similar articles as well. But, I guess I get his point: He needs more — more quality and quantity to reach this essential audience.
Bernie's going to need a landmark event to shake things up, or he is doomed.

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Hype
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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#26 Post by Hype » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:49 pm

:bs:

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mockbee
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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#27 Post by mockbee » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:44 pm

I really hope it's not true, that he will never resonate beyond the middle/working class white vote. I just can't see it happening.

Dean and Nader couldn't get a broader base interested in income inequality, climate change & getting big money out of politics, so why would Bernie be more successful. :noclue:

You might say they were/are kooks, but Bernie's kind of a kook himself. The appeal needs to be beyond policies. Unless your name is Bubba or Jimmy, good luck. :nod:

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Hype
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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#28 Post by Hype » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:26 am

There's nothing kooky about Sanders, except maybe his hair. The guy has been an elected politician for a long time, and isn't just a one-note candidate.

To some degree, (black) people voted for Obama because he's black. No white democratic candidate will be able to resonate the same way. Plus, Obama's first campaign was an exceptional one in terms of social media awareness. I'd need to double-check but I'm also pretty sure he raised more money than Sanders has.

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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#29 Post by mockbee » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:50 am

Sanders reminds me a lot of Dean, two angry older white guys, veteran politicians from New England with very salient points. Dean served as an elected official in the Vermont House and as Governor for over 20 years.

If Sanders actually pulls out a victory in Iowa, the media will come down on him hard, like scary hard. Maybe we are approaching the post mainstream media mindfuck monopoly, but I don't know if we are there yet. The glimmer of hope (?) is the way republicans have responded to Trump after Fox and the rest of the media have repeatedly tried to derail him.

I don't know if people are completely fed up and stupid or completely fed up and smart, probably a lot of both, just hope it's enough. Because completely fed up and resigned gives us Hillary vs Jeb. :noclue:


Sanders does have a strong civil rights background and that will help if the message actually gets out. He's got to go deep though, like way out of the comfort of the Boston, Madison, Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland cycle and beyond the stark white states of IA and NH. The first message that minorities get from Bernie can't be from the media (after the Iowa caucus), it has to be from him. Right now they aren't getting it, two-thirds don't even know who he is, and of that third who do, only about a quarter even like him.

If it ends of being Bernie vs Jeb (or Trump) I wouldn't be so concerned. But Hillary already has the black (and minority) vote overwhelmingly on her side. http://www.gallup.com/poll/184547/clint ... icans.aspx

More blacks know who George Pataki, Ben Carson, Lindsay Graham, Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, Chris Christie, Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, Ted Cruz, Rick Perry, Jeb Bush and Donald Trump is before they recognize who Bernie Sanders is. Yes, those people represent the states where the majority of black people live. But how does Bernie penetrate that bubble before the media writes the obituary? Hillary doesn't have this problem.

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Re: Black Lives Matter/Liberal Agenda

#30 Post by mockbee » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:13 pm






In a recent poll, Sanders edged Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton for the first time in Iowa, beating her by 1 percentage point, and he is almost eight percentage points ahead of her in New Hampshire. But in South Carolina, Sanders trails Clinton by 45 percentage points, according to a recent poll.
Bernie Sanders tests presidential appeal with students, African-Americans at Benedict College

COLUMBIA

Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders tried out his fiery populist message at Benedict College on Saturday – part of the U.S. senator’s efforts to broaden his appeal to African-Americans and Southern Democrats.

About 1,000 people came to hear the U.S. senator from Vermont speak at the historically black college in Columbia – his first in a few stops planned around the state Saturday.

The crowd was diverse and mostly enthusiastic, giving Sanders several standing ovations.

But overall, the audience was more subdued than the nearly 3,000-person crowds that packed a steaming hot conference center in Columbia and waited in a long line to hear Sanders speak in Greenville last month.

Scattered in the bleachers at Benedict were a few clusters of young adults watching from the rear who appeared disinterested in Sanders’ outrage over income inequality and other plights of the working class. Some sat looking down at their phones. Others clapped occasionally.


But Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist, succeeded in reaching a group of Benedict freshman who said, after hearing him speak, they could vote for him.

Dajana Baker, a freshman from Greenville, said Sanders came off as sincere to her and acted as though he really cares about people.

He's doing it from his heart, not because someone is paying him to do it. – Dajana Baker, Benedict freshman

“He’s doing it from his heart, not because someone is paying him to do it,” Baker said.

Sanders faces a tough battle to win over Democratic voters in South Carolina, where African-Americans traditionally make up a large part of that electorate.

To begin that work, Sanders had Cornel West, a professor, writer and national civil rights activist, introduce him. West touted the senator’s civil rights record and his commitment to helping the working class and the poor.

“He’s going to win because he represents so much of the best of the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr.,” a vociferous West said, his booming voice energizing the crowd.

“The condition of truth is to always allow suffering to speak ... That’s what brother Bernie Sanders stands for. That’s why we are here.”

The condition of truth is to always allow suffering to speak ... That’s what brother Bernie Sanders stands for. That’s why we are here. – Cornel West

In a speech similar to the one he gave in South Carolina last month, Sanders decried income inequality and the concentration of most of the nation’s wealth among the top 1 percent of Americans. He vowed to reverse the flow of dollars to the benefit of working-class people.

He said he would push for a trillion dollars to create jobs rebuilding the nation’s transportation infrastructure. He also wants to establish a $15 minimum wage, the key to boosting the economy, he said, by giving the nation’s lowest wage earners some disposable income.

Sanders directed parts of his speech toward college students, calling for free public college, criminal justice reforms and telling them that they are essential in forcing his so-called “political revolution.”

Baker, the Benedict student, and three of her freshman classmates were among the last people to leave the school’s gymnasium.

Saja Hargrow from Aiken said she appreciated Sanders talking about “people in jail, how when they come out, they go right back in, because we don’t really have a plan for them.”

Sanders “spoke really well, he connected to us,” said Marc Walker, drawn to the senator’s promise to fight for free-tuition at public colleges.

Walker’s mother is paying for his college education, he said, “and she’s a single parent,” so Sanders’ promise could really help his family.

After leaving Columbia, Sanders had stops in Florence and at Winthrop University in Rock Hill. Sanders said he has a lot of work to do in South Carolina to get his message to young and minority voters.

In a recent poll, Sanders edged Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton for the first time in Iowa, beating her by 1 percentage point, and he is almost eight percentage points ahead of her in New Hampshire. But in South Carolina, Sanders trails Clinton by 45 percentage points, according to a recent poll.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/news/politics-g ... rylink=cpy

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