Coronavirus

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#476 Post by Hype » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:33 am

Like, everyone over 50 should stay home and be careful but other than that life goes on ....
This would have been a terrible idea. Do you know how many immunocompromised people and people with underlying conditions are under 50? A huge number. That's everyone with diabetes, heart disease, cancer, MS, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, HIV infection, and craziest of all: fucking asthma. People are dying of COVID-19 because they caught it and had asthma.

Life doesn't go on for those people. They get viral pneumonia, maybe get hooked up to a respirator if there even is one, and then they have a maybe 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 chance of surviving -- and if they do survive, they may have long-lasting detrimental effects.

Just to be clearer: for those people, it doesn't matter if *they* don't go outside for the duration of this crisis if their spouses, children, loved ones, friends, etc., go on as if everything is fine for them, are asymptomatic for two weeks while carrying it, and infect these vulnerable people.

Sweden has 40 coronavirus deaths per million population right now. Do you know how many Canada has? 6. SIX. So Sweden's death rate is nearly 7 times higher than Canada's. That is ridiculous. (It's 254 / million in Italy, which is an indicator of just how bad things get when the system gets overwhelmed.)

This is why ordinary people aren't in charge of public health. Jeeeeez.

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Larry B.
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Re: Coronavirus

#477 Post by Larry B. » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:43 am

I think it boils down to the question of how many lives os the country’s economy worth. As a country, are you willing to sacrifice 1% of your population in order to keep your economy more or less as it was in Dec 2019?

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#478 Post by Hype » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:16 am

It’s not just lives. It’s the healthcare system, and the effect of system failure there on everything else. The effect on nurses, doctors, maintenance workers... unchecked, allowing this to just run away would cause more than just Coronavirus deaths.

Look at state and national healthcare budgets. It’s a massive proportion of government expenditure. If governments fail, it’s a lot worse than a temporary economic depression.

Decades of idiotic anti-tax lobbying around the world means that there’s no real leeway here. Governments may need to start thinking about how to claw billions from the multinationals to pay for all of this.

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kv
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Re: Coronavirus

#479 Post by kv » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:09 am

:banghead:

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SR
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Re: Coronavirus

#480 Post by SR » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:28 am

I can't think of a better anti-globalist lesson than cv. We won't learn from it though

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#481 Post by Hype » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:06 am

SR wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:28 am
I can't think of a better anti-globalist lesson than cv. We won't learn from it though
I think it depends on what you think is included under the header of 'globalism'.

Many years ago, the husband of a former Governor General (Queen's Representative) of Canada, wrote this book: https://www.johnralstonsaul.com/non-fic ... _bastards/

I read it back then, and saw him give a talk on it. The gist was that the West has perverted the notion of 'reason' and confused it with 'efficiency' in markets, leading to effectively a "new mercantilism", where global multinationals take on much of the role formerly played by national governments. That is, we had entered an era basically copying the 17th century rise of massive "companies" like the East India Company, which functioned effectively like governments in the regions of the world they were sent to enslave and pillage.

There's a lot to this. But I'm not so sure that the lesson is strictly anti-globalist. Rather, I think it can be anti-monopolistic, anti-trust, anti-tax-evasion, and so forth, while retaining a strong sense of global economic and social cooperation.

I'm concerned that people are now going to confuse the fact that China has a stranglehold on production of certain goods, or the United States has a stranglehold on multinational corporate interests (see: 3M) with the fact that cooperation between China and the United States and Canada and the EU is one of the things that prevented us from going to war in anything other than periodic proxy-wars in developing nations that were being used as fronts for regional power-struggles. Breaking up agreements like NAFTA, the TPP, the EU, and so on is not going to go well. National self-sufficiency is not the ideal we should hold ourselves to. There is no such thing as a nation that can be entirely self-sufficient. If there were, the Soviet Union would have been it by sheer geographic size (and sufficient population) alone. But the lesson of the Soviet Union is that international isolation is deadly.

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mockbee
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Re: Coronavirus

#482 Post by mockbee » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:28 am

Hype wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:06 am
.......
The gist was that the West has perverted the notion of 'reason' and confused it with 'efficiency' in markets, leading to effectively a "new mercantilism", where global multinationals take on much of the role formerly played by national governments. That is, we had entered an era basically copying the 17th century rise of massive "companies" like the East India Company, which functioned effectively like governments in the regions of the world they were sent to enslave and pillage.

There's a lot to this. But I'm not so sure that the lesson is strictly anti-globalist. Rather, I think it can be anti-monopolistic, anti-trust, anti-tax-evasion, and so forth, while retaining a strong sense of global economic and social cooperation.

I'm concerned that people are now going to confuse the fact that China has a stranglehold on production of certain goods, or the United States has a stranglehold on multinational corporate interests (see: 3M) with the fact that cooperation between China and the United States and Canada and the EU is one of the things that prevented us from going to war in anything other than periodic proxy-wars in developing nations that were being used as fronts for regional power-struggles. Breaking up agreements like NAFTA, the TPP, the EU, and so on is not going to go well. National self-sufficiency is not the ideal we should hold ourselves to. There is no such thing as a nation that can be entirely self-sufficient. If there were, the Soviet Union would have been it by sheer geographic size (and sufficient population) alone. But the lesson of the Soviet Union is that international isolation is deadly.

This.

The problem moving forward is that I see absolutely no alternative politically in the US....

Both "sides" (Dems/Repubs) are mind-bogglingly "stupid" and the rest of us don't care........ :blah:


Maybe COVID-19 will wake people up.....

:noclue: :no: :wavesad:

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#483 Post by Hype » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:38 am

Besides the obvious tragedy of the US handling of COVID-19, it would compound the shit out of it if Trump is reelected and the Republicans keep control of the Senate. The old saying that Americans can be counted on to do the right thing after they've exhausted all other options first seems apt here. God, I hope as a country something cracks and y'all can knock some sense into government at all levels after this. Sort of like rejecting Hoover for FDR. Unfortunately neither Biden nor Sanders are FDR-like.

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Re: Coronavirus

#484 Post by Hokahey » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:38 pm

New York state has seen its first drop in daily coronavirus deaths, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Sunday -- as the U.S. Northern Command said it would deploy a combined total of 1,000 Air Force and Navy medical providers to the New York City area to support relief efforts in the next three days.

Cuomo said New York also experienced a slight drop in intensive care admissions and the number of patients who need breathing tubes inserted. The hospital discharge rate is "way up" he said, calling it "great news."

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Bandit72
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Re: Coronavirus

#485 Post by Bandit72 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:49 pm

Our Prime Minister is in hospital now as a "precautionary measure"....I know he is in government but how many people are admitted because of this? Zero. Something's not right.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#486 Post by Hype » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:20 pm

Bandit72 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:49 pm
Our Prime Minister is in hospital now as a "precautionary measure"....I know he is in government but how many people are admitted because of this? Zero. Something's not right.
I think I read that he had had pneumonia once before when he was younger. That is a *very* bad sign, because this virus seems to destroy people who have any kind of respiratory issues.

Having a fever for 10 days also isn't great. If he's suffering from a cytokine storm, he may not make it.

Say whatever about his politics, but the man has a pregnant wife at home who also appears to have COVID-19... and losing the leader of a country in the middle of a generational crisis is a horrific state to be in.

clickie
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Re: Coronavirus

#487 Post by clickie » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:22 pm

Hype wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:43 pm
Coronavirus Cases:
1,009,699
view by country
Deaths:
52,855
Any bets for for long before we hit 10 million? I'm going to say by the end of April.
Scumbag move gambling on how many lives might be lost.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#488 Post by Hype » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:23 pm

clickie wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:22 pm
Hype wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:43 pm
Coronavirus Cases:
1,009,699
view by country
Deaths:
52,855
Any bets for for long before we hit 10 million? I'm going to say by the end of April.
Scumbag move gambling on how many lives might be lost.
I know you think that was clever, but what I said was about number of cases, not number of deaths. And I obviously wasn't serious.

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Re: Coronavirus

#489 Post by clickie » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:32 pm

Don't try to pretend that was a joke post. Even if it was why would you joke about this?

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Bandit72
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Re: Coronavirus

#490 Post by Bandit72 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:35 pm

Hype wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:20 pm
Bandit72 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:49 pm
Our Prime Minister is in hospital now as a "precautionary measure"....I know he is in government but how many people are admitted because of this? Zero. Something's not right.
I think I read that he had had pneumonia once before when he was younger. That is a *very* bad sign, because this virus seems to destroy people who have any kind of respiratory issues.

Having a fever for 10 days also isn't great. If he's suffering from a cytokine storm, he may not make it.

Say whatever about his politics, but the man has a pregnant wife at home who also appears to have COVID-19... and losing the leader of a country in the middle of a generational crisis is a horrific state to be in.
Yeh I totally agree. It's irrelevant when it comes to politics, and a few of his cabinet (and like you stated, his wife) have become ill. Not good.

I took my kids to the park today on their scooters. There were at least 8 police officers clearing the skate park of...skateboarders. It's shit like this which will only lead to mandetory lock downs.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#491 Post by Hype » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:48 pm

In Canada we’re not supposed to take children to the parks. A walk, keeping distant from others, fine, but they shouldn’t be using the playgrounds.

I feel bad for skateboarders. Technically it’s not that difficult to get together with some friends and skate a parking lot, staying two meters apart at all times. But police seem to be taking some liberties with their newfound powers.

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Re: Coronavirus

#492 Post by clickie » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:05 pm

Imagine if this was the 60's.. We'd have no cable tv, no Internet, no computer, no i phones, no social media, no video games. All we'd have is 4 channels on tv and a rotary phone.
This is a cakewalk

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Artemis
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Re: Coronavirus

#493 Post by Artemis » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:54 pm

I liked the Queen's message today. Regardless of what one may think of the Royals, I think her message was inspiring and positive. And yes, we must ALL - not just the UK&Commonwealth- remain united and resolute to overcome this.


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Re: Coronavirus

#494 Post by Hokahey » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:08 pm

Hype wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:48 pm
In Canada we’re not supposed to take children to the parks. A walk, keeping distant from others, fine, but they shouldn’t be using the playgrounds.

I feel bad for skateboarders. Technically it’s not that difficult to get together with some friends and skate a parking lot, staying two meters apart at all times. But police seem to be taking some liberties with their newfound powers.
All playgrounds are shut down in my area as well.

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Matz
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Re: Coronavirus

#495 Post by Matz » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:52 pm

Anyone's see any future prediction? Where are we in three months, six months? That's what I'd like to know.

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Matz
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Re: Coronavirus

#496 Post by Matz » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:56 am

nevermind. About 5% of Danes have now been infected, we need to get to 60-70% because at that point there's a chance that the virus will die off. People are going to be led out in groups, starting with kids. It's hard to say how long it will take to get to 70.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#497 Post by Hype » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:39 am

Matz wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:56 am
nevermind. About 5% of Danes have now been infected, we need to get to 60-70% because at that point there's a chance that the virus will die off. People are going to be led out in groups, starting with kids. It's hard to say how long it will take to get to 70.
It's not that difficult. Epidemiologists have a clear methodology for predicting this. Take the R0 value of 2.2-2.5 (each person infected infects 2-3 people) and the average incubation time (which appears to be about 14 days) and you can pretty quickly get a good estimate of when it will hit 70% of any given population. Without calculating it properly, it's something like 6-8 months from the first infection, depending on mitigation factors and things like population density and movement.

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SR
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Re: Coronavirus

#498 Post by SR » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:08 am

SR wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:28 am
I can't think of a better anti-globalist lesson than cv. We won't learn from it though
Anti nationalist/populist. FFS :sui:

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mockbee
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Re: Coronavirus

#499 Post by mockbee » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:11 am

SR wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:08 am
SR wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:28 am
I can't think of a better anti-globalist lesson than cv. We won't learn from it though
Anti nationalist/populist. FFS :sui:
Was going to say whatcha been drinkin down there. You on the Trump train now?
:lol:

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SR
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Re: Coronavirus

#500 Post by SR » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:13 am

mockbee wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:11 am
SR wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:08 am
SR wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:28 am
I can't think of a better anti-globalist lesson than cv. We won't learn from it though
Anti nationalist/populist. FFS :sui:
Was going to say whatcha been drinkin down there. You on the Trump train now?
:lol:
Tbh, my head is just spinning with all this. I am so much more reactive than proactive and that is not comfortable territory for me.SR-pro-trump :lol:

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