Coronavirus

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#441 Post by Hype » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:18 pm

I'd be doubtful anything in North America will start going even remotely "back to normal" (in terms of reopening things and actually allowing people to congregate) until at least the end of May.

It will probably be 2 or 3 years before the after-effects have more-or-less subsided.

854,000 cases now.

It will be over a million by the end of the week.

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Matz
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Re: Coronavirus

#442 Post by Matz » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:53 pm

Denmark is talking about slowly opening the country beginning in two weeks, maybe. I just don't see how that can be a good idea. More people will just get infected.

We are going to continue being slaves to this fcuking thing until we come up with meds that can kill it.

I feel like I'm in a Paul Verhoeven movie

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Artemis
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Re: Coronavirus

#443 Post by Artemis » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:06 am

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-mea ... 17ICEWD7xo
COVID-19 measures could be in place for 12 weeks, Toronto’s top doctor says

TORONTO -- Toronto’s Medical Officer of Health says that measures adopted by the city to combat the spread of COVID-19 could be in place for months.

“Based on the experiences of other jurisdictions, it is my belief that these measures may need to be in place for up to 12 weeks,” Dr. Eileen de Villa said at a news conference on Wednesday morning.

“But I would tell you that how long these measures need to be in place, how successful we are in terms of controlling virus spread is entirely in our hands.”

“The more we are able to put these measures into place, the more we are able as a community to adhere to these measures, to adhere to the recommendations, the shorter will be the duration of these measures and the more effective we will be, most importantly, at reducing the loss of lives in our community.”

Public health officials say that as of Wednesday there are 628 confirmed cases in the city and 165 more probable cases. Of those 628, de Villa says that 65 patients are in hospital, 33 of which are in an intensive care unit.

In the last two weeks we have seen a more than 500 per cent increase in these counts. This is a not a favourable trajectory and as your medical officer of health responsible for protecting the city’s health, your health, I am deeply concerned.”

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chaos
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Re: Coronavirus

#444 Post by chaos » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:42 am


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chaos
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Re: Coronavirus

#445 Post by chaos » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:44 am


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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#446 Post by Hype » Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:55 pm

Hype wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:18 pm
I'd be doubtful anything in North America will start going even remotely "back to normal" (in terms of reopening things and actually allowing people to congregate) until at least the end of May.

It will probably be 2 or 3 years before the after-effects have more-or-less subsided.

854,000 cases now.

It will be over a million by the end of the week.
928,057.

creep
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Re: Coronavirus

#447 Post by creep » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:48 pm

i thought this was interesting. good thing i never go to church. :thumb:

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Larry B.
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Re: Coronavirus

#448 Post by Larry B. » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:11 pm

Fucking imbeciles.

Today, the dictatorship renewed the lockdown for 6 of the 7 communes in Santiago that were in lockdown for a week (I am in one of those 6). The major of 7th commune, whose lockdown wasn't renewed, demanded that it be renewed and sent a legal motion to have the Minister of Health's decision overruled.

We are projected to have our 100 death around the 10 of April.

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perkana
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Re: Coronavirus

#449 Post by perkana » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:22 pm

How are you dealing with fake news? Here they are trying to make this a political issue but also some stuff are so fucking hilarious. Like someone sharing on whatsapp that the archibishop goes on a helicopter and blesses a town at a certain hour so you can go outside to receive your blessing :lolol:
Other rumors are just plain nasty like a theory going on that seniors are shut in so they can be fumigated and killed. Seriously, who has such a perverted and evil mind to come up with this stuff?
I think churches have been closed since we entered phase 2 on Saturday. Last week people were still going to church. Now they are advised to watch mass on tv or listen to it on the radio. Parks and other public spaces have been closed. Even event halls, though some people still gather for parties. When they get sick, they blame the government even though they are told to stay inside. Dumb asses.
I only had a panic attack last week, but now I'm feeling better. Hope you are all safe :heart:

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mockbee
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Re: Coronavirus

#450 Post by mockbee » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:18 am

Image


holy. shit.

:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:


Yeah, the vast majority of those are furloughed ("going to get their jobs back.......?") But still........when is that......?


And compare to the BIG 2009 recession........

whoa.


Stuff is going to be messed up.



True Socialism/Communism......?


I bet most here are aware of Marx Communist Manifesto, this seems like a potential event to track its stated natural conclusion.......
:noclue:

If rents dont get paid for multiple months in a row......banking is going down and tge state will be required to take over or "bail out the plutocrats" AGAIN. Maybe Americans will be okay with that again....like they were 2009. Really, they were. You can whine all you want, but that doesnt change anything. :noclue:

Im not looking for a revolution. But to not address the elephant in the room is a GIGANTIC mistake in my mind.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#451 Post by Hype » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:43 pm

Coronavirus Cases:
1,009,699
view by country
Deaths:
52,855
Any bets for for long before we hit 10 million? I'm going to say by the end of April.

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mockbee
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Re: Coronavirus

#452 Post by mockbee » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:54 pm

Hype wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:43 pm
Coronavirus Cases:
1,009,699
view by country
Deaths:
52,855
Any bets for for long before we hit 10 million? I'm going to say by the end of April.
I'm not deep into the statistical models but if you are including non-symptom/mild reveal cases, wouldnt you say we are there already.....?

Those million cases are only tested right? Not projections?
:noclue:

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#453 Post by Hype » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:08 pm

mockbee wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:54 pm
Hype wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:43 pm
Coronavirus Cases:
1,009,699
view by country
Deaths:
52,855
Any bets for for long before we hit 10 million? I'm going to say by the end of April.
I'm not deep into the statistical models but if you are including non-symptom/mild reveal cases, wouldnt you say we are there already.....?

Those million cases are only tested right? Not projections?
:noclue:
Only tested. There's no point in talking about global untested cases because the variance between and within jurisdictions is too complicated. Modelling can deal with this in broad strokes with error margins. But one thing that's important about tested cases is that these are generally going to be people who were highest risk to begin with (because that's what the testing criteria were) and those displaying symptoms. Yes, we need to know in some sense roughly how many people are walking around asymptomatic and spreading it, and they do have some idea of that (it's apparently something like up to 50% of all infections). Some of the tested cases are asymptomatic people too.

A million people is like 0.001% of the world's population. But it's only been four months, and that R0 of 2.2-2.5 is brutal. Not measles brutal, but brutal because it's over double that of the flu and given how mild it is... basically whenever it hits an old age home, you'll have multiple deaths.

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Re: Coronavirus

#454 Post by creep » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:39 pm

creep wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:48 pm
i thought this was interesting. good thing i never go to church. :thumb:

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:noclue:

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Bandit72
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Re: Coronavirus

#455 Post by Bandit72 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:07 am

This is a grim watch...


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mockbee
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Re: Coronavirus

#456 Post by mockbee » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:36 am

So it looks like CDC will "strongly urge" people to wear some sort of mask when outside in public.

I'm fine with that, I just don't like the politics of it all. I actually have (2) N95 masks, 1 used a couple times this past year and a new one because I do a lot of wood work/furniture building with sanding etc. I would be happy to give the new one to a medical professional, but don't really know how that would work/be worth meeting someone to give them one mask.
:noclue:

I did find this site, which is useful:
https://www.myoregon.gov/2020/03/19/med ... rplus-ppe/

Looks like a lot of states have places to drop off PPE.


And then if I just wear my used one, I know I will be judged for wearing it. Especially in Portland........people suck here that way, so righteous..... :essence:

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Artemis
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Re: Coronavirus

#457 Post by Artemis » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:21 pm

In my province, Ontario, the projections for the number of deaths is 3000-15,000. By the end of April, 1,600.
An announcement was made today for more business closures, including construction sites that aren't considered essential. So, transportation projects will continue and homes that are nearing completion. More fines for people disobeying social distancing rules. The President and CEO of Public Health Ontario said the pandemic may last for 18 months to two years with a potential second wave of the virus.


Oh, and fuck Trump forever and ever! He's trying to stop 3M from sending N95 masks to Canada and other countries.Trudeau did immediately respond that there could be retaliations. For example, there are many nurses and other healthcare workers from Canada who cross the border in Detroit to work in the US. I'm sure Trump wouldn't want that to stop now.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#458 Post by Hype » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:33 pm

Artemis wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:21 pm
In my province, Ontario, the projections for the number of deaths is 3000-15,000. By the end of April, 1,600.
An announcement was made today for more business closures, including construction sites that aren't considered essential. So, transportation projects will continue and homes that are nearing completion. More fines for people disobeying social distancing rules. The President and CEO of Public Health Ontario said the pandemic may last for 18 months to two years with a potential second wave of the virus.


Oh, and fuck Trump forever and ever! He's trying to stop 3M from sending N95 masks to Canada and other countries.Trudeau did immediately respond that there could be retaliations. For example, there are many nurses and other healthcare workers from Canada who cross the border in Detroit to work in the US. I'm sure Trump wouldn't want that to stop now.
The end result of all of this just might be the end of the United States as a world power (see, e.g., https://www.businessinsider.com/us-econ ... ays-2019-1 ) and a trusted ally for the rest of the developed world. There's not much Canada can really do to prevent American isolationism. And we're stuck bearing the brunt of whatever disastrously stupid policies they set at a national level because our economy is tied so directly to the American one. (Not to mention we're a petro-state and oil is currently sitting at late-1990s prices...)

Canada, with the rest of the world, is in for a very, very rough decade. One thing we can say is that our banking sector is relatively stable, and at least we have a liberal government in power that *may* help push for the sort of social programming that will be an absolute necessity to get through this.

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Larry B.
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Re: Coronavirus

#459 Post by Larry B. » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:26 pm

Oh, and fuck Trump forever and ever! He's trying to stop 3M from sending N95 masks to Canada and other countries.Trudeau did immediately respond that there could be retaliations. For example, there are many nurses and other healthcare workers from Canada who cross the border in Detroit to work in the US. I'm sure Trump wouldn't want that to stop now.
Apparently, 3M said no.

It wasn't just masks that Trump didn't want 3M to send to Canada and Latin America, but respirators too.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#460 Post by Hype » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:34 pm

Larry B. wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:26 pm
Oh, and fuck Trump forever and ever! He's trying to stop 3M from sending N95 masks to Canada and other countries.Trudeau did immediately respond that there could be retaliations. For example, there are many nurses and other healthcare workers from Canada who cross the border in Detroit to work in the US. I'm sure Trump wouldn't want that to stop now.
Apparently, 3M said no.

It wasn't just masks that Trump didn't want 3M to send to Canada and Latin America, but respirators too.
The problem is that Trump's powers during this crisis are extraordinary. See: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... us/608083/

He may be able to compel American companies to do whatever he wants, even by (temporarily) nationalizing them.

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Larry B.
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Re: Coronavirus

#461 Post by Larry B. » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:44 pm

I really, really doubt he would attack corporations. They own him (and any president in a capitalist country). He’d rather let people die.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#462 Post by Hype » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:42 pm

Larry B. wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:44 pm
I really, really doubt he would attack corporations. They own him (and any president in a capitalist country). He’d rather let people die.
In this case, it looks like 3M wins because Canada is the source for the raw materials for the masks (but not the respirators?). But don't underestimate the degree to which this isn't business as usual. Corporations don't have as much power as national governments when there is no economy.

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Pandemonium
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Re: Coronavirus

#463 Post by Pandemonium » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:46 pm

You are seeing the growing (US) government "commandeering" of major US corporations that was seen in WWII, which considering the circumstances and behavior of some noted major companies like GM, is frankly necessary right now. I also believe that a US company serves the US and it's citizens first in times of National crisis, the rest of the world comes second. The same I'd think of any company based in Canada, Mexico, the UK or where ever. The downside is when resources become scarce in one country or region, that's how wars start.

Also, for better or worse, we are definitely going to see a big pullback from the Globalism trend of the past quarter century. When the dust settles, a lot of countries are going to want to be more self-reliant and self contained to better prepare for the next major crisis.

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Larry B.
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Re: Coronavirus

#464 Post by Larry B. » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:33 pm

Hype wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:42 pm
Larry B. wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:44 pm
I really, really doubt he would attack corporations. They own him (and any president in a capitalist country). He’d rather let people die.
In this case, it looks like 3M wins because Canada is the source for the raw materials for the masks (but not the respirators?). But don't underestimate the degree to which this isn't business as usual. Corporations don't have as much power as national governments when there is no economy.
In severely capitalists countries (like Chile and the US), governments don’t have much. Corporations have everyone on their payrolls. I understand that it’s most definitely NOT business as usual, but capitalist governments will shed a lot of working class blood before attacking corporations.

The government will ‘ask’ for things, maybe. And they might even ‘push’ for some things. But taking them over? I don’t know. I really doubt it.

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Hype
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Re: Coronavirus

#465 Post by Hype » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:13 am

Yeah. That sounds about right. Things are more or less reasonable until there's a breaking point / crisis point, and then it's not clear what the reaction will be. Trump is oddly non-ideological in some ways. His recent talk of the number of uninsured people being "unfair" so maybe they should increase medicare/medicaid enrollment (i.e., create something closer to a universal public insurance scheme) is surprising, since it doesn't fit with anything else he's said (but it seems like it's a calculation based on the fact that his voter base is the most affected by this crisis, so throwing them a lifeline like this is a way to win the election...).

The nationalistic/"America First" rhetoric plays into this as well. Americans tend to be ignorant and blinkered when it comes to their reliance on the rest of the world. And it's easy to see why: The United States has for 100 years been really well-positioned to do things on its own, and provide aid to the rest of the world. But given modern supply-chains and interconnected economies, it's idiotic for them to try to restrict the actions of American multinational corporations. Still, they might try, because they're trying to make up for how poorly they've dealt with things up to this point.

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