Hype wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:59 am
chaos wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:28 am
^ I don't understand how that is different from what I am saying about the immune system and the
current approach to the annual flu vaccine.
Yes viruses change and mutate. The goal for a universal flu vaccine is to provide an immunity so people could forgo the yearly/bi-yearly shots; that involves a completely different approach
because of the numerous strains and clades.
I think maybe we weren't saying anything different, except that it sounded like you were saying that something about the number of subtypes of flu
would itself be the cause of some failure of our immune system if we made a vaccine with say... I don't know... 100 types in it. As I understand it, we *could* do that, and our body probably would deal with it just fine, but it'd be prohibitively expensive to manufacture, and since we'd still need it every year, it's kind of pointless to approach it that way. But yeah, I guess we're basically saying the same thing.
Okay - but this is how you define it:
Yes, but that claim isn't about overwhelming the immune system (which suggests that if we made such a vaccine it would somehow break / shut down / be ignored by our immune response).
You indicate that the immune system would either react negatively or would not react at all.
Your definition fits, but then you seem to be saying that you don't think there would be negative effects to the immune system. It would, as you say, be cost prohibitive since the immune system
would not work as intended when more than 3 or 4 stains are introduced to it.
I actually agree with both parts of your definition. Here is why:
https://www.livescience.com/why-flu-sho ... u-flu.html
And just as the polio vaccine won't give a child polio, the flu vaccine will not cause the flu. That's because the flu vaccine is made with inactive strains of the flu virus, which are not capable of causing the flu.
That said, some people may feel sick after they receive the flu shot which can lead to thinking they got sick from the shot.
However, feeling under the weather after a flu shot is actually a positive. It can be a sign that your body's immune response is working.
What happens is this: When you receive the flu shot, your body recognizes the inactive flu virus as a foreign invader. This is not dangerous; it causes your immune system to develop antibodies to attack the flu virus when exposed in the future. This natural immune response may cause some people to develop a low-grade fever, headache or overall muscle aches. These side effects can be mistaken for the flu but in reality are likely the body's normal response to vaccination.
I think the immune system can only take on so much. Adding all 12 or 15 strains that doctors currently work with for the annual vaccine would probably not do anything to a person's immune system, and would have less efficacy than a vaccine targeted for 3 or 4 strains since the immune system can make just so many antibodies at one time.
Hypothetically speaking, I also think inoculations containing dozen(s) of strains, given year after year for decades, could potentially harm the immune system. What would such a vaccine do to the immune system? I don't know, but neither do the scientists.
The annual flu vaccine and a (potential) universal vaccine are designed to target the "foreign invaders" in completely different ways.
I have tried to clarify my points simply, although I'm still not sure we agree.
I'm not a doctor. I just play one on the internet.