Coronavirus

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Artemis
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Re: Coronavirus

#841 Post by Artemis » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:08 pm

To top things off, Donald Trump is being an even bigger baby than usual by not willing to share and co-operate with Biden's people. :no:

Here in Canada we just passed 300,000 cases and 11,000 deaths. Cases are on the rise here too, hospitals are filling up.

chaos
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Re: Coronavirus

#842 Post by chaos » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:04 pm

Hokahey wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:08 pm
Pandemonium wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:34 pm
I think most of the US is going to be in serious trouble by New Years, far moreso than at any point so far. The arc of new cases is simply out of control. There's just so many stupid, selfish people out there. And politicians are useless and government run services and general medical care are starting to break down. I would not be surprised that one of Biden's first acts will be to order a nationwide lockdown that will result in a lot of civil unrest.
Never, ever going to happen because he has no authority to lock down individual states. You will see these things handled at smaller levels. St. Louis just locked down again.

These vaccines are going to hit soon, and more vaccines are coming.

It will be a tough winter, but the light at the end of the tunnel is showing.

Also, while cases have skyrocketed, we seem to be POSSIBLY plateauing at this new peak (150K). Hopefully these lockdowns ease the numbers further before the holidays undoubtedly exacerbate them again. But by January, needles will be in arms. And more every month thereafter.
I don't like the fact that the info regarding the vaccines has been primarily disseminated through CEOs, press releases, and scientists' general opinions based solely on said press releases (since they have not receive anything else yet). I guess on the bright side the stock market goes up as a result.

Let's pretend everything is cupcakes and kittens: there is a vaccine and it is safe, there are enough supplies/medical personnel, and nationwide distribution is organized. Even with that fantasy scenario, at least half of the country will not get the vaccine.

People who are refusing to wear masks are not going to get the vaccine; people who think Covid-19 is a hoax will not get the vaccine; anti-vaxxers will not get the vaccine; the 11 million (there are probably more) undocumented people in the US will not get the vaccine; certain religious groups (i.e. Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Scientists, and others) will not get the vaccine. Then there are the people who have little to no confidence in the accelerated vaccine process (nurses are people too) https://dailynurse.com/survey-nurses-vi ... certainty/

I hate to be Debbie Downer but I do not see a beacon of light in this abyss.

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mockbee
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Re: Coronavirus

#843 Post by mockbee » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:10 pm

chaos wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:04 pm

Let's pretend everything is cupcakes and kittens: there is a vaccine and it is safe, there are enough supplies/medical personnel, and nationwide distribution is organized. Even with that fantasy scenario, at least half of the country will not get the vaccine.

People who are refusing to wear masks are not going to get the vaccine; people who think Covid-19 is a hoax will not get the vaccine; anti-vaxxers will not get the vaccine; the 11 million (there are probably more) undocumented people in the US will not get the vaccine; certain religious groups (i.e. Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Scientists, and others) will not get the vaccine. Then there are the people who have little to no confidence in the accelerated vaccine process (nurses are people too) https://dailynurse.com/survey-nurses-vi ... certainty/

I hate to be Debbie Downer but I do not see a beacon of light in this abyss.
uhhh....yeah! :wave:
:tiphat:

In addition to general bureaucratic ineptitude/availability..... :conf:





Let alone, in my state it is virtually impossible to get a COVID test. Even if you are sick, and have circumstantial reasoning to believe you have been exposed, they will not give you a test. You have to be sick, have hard evidence that you were exposed and be in a high risk category, and then they MIGHT give you a test. Don't ask me why. All I have to say is oregon, we suck at anything involving organizing anything...... :eyes:

I doubt we are getting any vaccines here within a couple years of them being available....


They are still working on getting thousands of people their Trump money from the supplemental unemployment allotments to unemployed people in our state,also specifically the state hasn't distributed ANY of the money from the fed mandate to make a reprieve for the waiting week. We are by far the last state to distribute the payments (they still don't know how they will do it, the filing software the state uses is from the early 80s, the state received $86 million 10 years ago to upgrade, but nobody knows where the money went...)

Oh...so, yeah, that's the Employment Department....we're talking about the Oregon Health Department that would be responsible for vaccine distribution...um, well....can I just get my shot at the Employment Department instead...?
So yeah....so we're not getting a vaccine. :lol:
Coronavirus


Image
Why did an Oregon health official dressed like a clown read off the coronavirus death toll?

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/ ... -toll.html
:wavesad:

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Hokahey
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Re: Coronavirus

#844 Post by Hokahey » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 pm

chaos wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:04 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:08 pm
Pandemonium wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:34 pm
I think most of the US is going to be in serious trouble by New Years, far moreso than at any point so far. The arc of new cases is simply out of control. There's just so many stupid, selfish people out there. And politicians are useless and government run services and general medical care are starting to break down. I would not be surprised that one of Biden's first acts will be to order a nationwide lockdown that will result in a lot of civil unrest.
Never, ever going to happen because he has no authority to lock down individual states. You will see these things handled at smaller levels. St. Louis just locked down again.

These vaccines are going to hit soon, and more vaccines are coming.

It will be a tough winter, but the light at the end of the tunnel is showing.

Also, while cases have skyrocketed, we seem to be POSSIBLY plateauing at this new peak (150K). Hopefully these lockdowns ease the numbers further before the holidays undoubtedly exacerbate them again. But by January, needles will be in arms. And more every month thereafter.
I don't like the fact that the info regarding the vaccines has been primarily disseminated through CEOs, press releases, and scientists' general opinions based solely on said press releases (since they have not receive anything else yet). I guess on the bright side the stock market goes up as a result.

Let's pretend everything is cupcakes and kittens: there is a vaccine and it is safe, there are enough supplies/medical personnel, and nationwide distribution is organized. Even with that fantasy scenario, at least half of the country will not get the vaccine.

People who are refusing to wear masks are not going to get the vaccine; people who think Covid-19 is a hoax will not get the vaccine; anti-vaxxers will not get the vaccine; the 11 million (there are probably more) undocumented people in the US will not get the vaccine; certain religious groups (i.e. Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Scientists, and others) will not get the vaccine. Then there are the people who have little to no confidence in the accelerated vaccine process (nurses are people too) https://dailynurse.com/survey-nurses-vi ... certainty/

I hate to be Debbie Downer but I do not see a beacon of light in this abyss.

1. These CEOs have zero motivation to misrepresent the results provided by an independent body, because these same results will go to the FDA. The company does not collect the data. That's not how this works.

With both Moderna and Pfizer reporting incredible results by targeting the spike protein, we know that the other vaccines (though a different tech) will also likely be very successful due to same general approach. The vaccines are coming, and they work.

2. Not everyone needs to get the vaccine to have a massive, massive positive impact. For one, a lot of people will have ready had covid. For two, a lot of people are not a priority for vaccination (ages 0-30, at minimum - barring health conditions). By vaccinating the vulnerable, who will likely choose to get vaccinated at a high rate, the death rate plummets. People see the positive impact. More people get vaccinated. Anyone getting covid 12 months from now is either in a disadvantaged country or does not give a shit.

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Re: Coronavirus

#845 Post by guysmiley » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:37 pm


chaos
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Re: Coronavirus

#846 Post by chaos » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:19 am

Hokahey wrote:
1. These CEOs have zero motivation to misrepresent the results provided by an independent body, because these same results will go to the FDA. The company does not collect the data. That's not how this works.

With both Moderna and Pfizer reporting incredible results by targeting the spike protein, we know that the other vaccines (though a different tech) will also likely be very successful due to same general approach. The vaccines are coming, and they work.

2. Not everyone needs to get the vaccine to have a massive, massive positive impact. For one, a lot of people will have ready had covid. For two, a lot of people are not a priority for vaccination (ages 0-30, at minimum - barring health conditions). By vaccinating the vulnerable, who will likely choose to get vaccinated at a high rate, the death rate plummets. People see the positive impact. More people get vaccinated. Anyone getting covid 12 months from now is either in a disadvantaged country or does not give a shit.
I'm not saying the CEOs misrepresent. It's what they don't/can't say. They zero in on what sounds good with the scant preliminary results. What has been presented to the public sounds good. The actual trial data has not been thoroughly scrutinized or peer reviewed yet because of the accelerated process. Also, no one knows if people who have already been infected will be immune. There is a lot we still don't know about the virus since it is constantly mutating. With regard to the vulnerable, very few in one group participated in the trials - the elderly. In general the efficacy rate for vaccines among the elderly is low. In order for the elderly to be protected the less vulnerable people around them will need to get the vaccine.

What we do know about the Pfizer vaccine is that almost 39k people have received two doses and, as of the date of the press release, there was no infection for those people for seven days.

With regard to the Moderna vaccine, the storage of their vaccine is less complicated and not as cost prohibitive as Pfizer's, but only 15K people have received it.

Once the FDA is actually given data from Pfizer/Moderna, the Trump appointees there will be reviewing and making decisions with regard to the information they will send to the CDC. The Trump appointees at the CDC will have to make decisions based on the information the FDA chose to send them. Then once the process gets started, the new administration gets to jump in through a window on the brakeless bus and take over.

The man currently in charge of the Coronavirus Task Force, Scott Atlas, is a lunatic. Stephen Hahn (FDA) and Robert Redfield (CDC) have struggled to maintain the integrity of their institutions and have not been profiles in courage. Have you not seen what has been going on at these institutions the last year, let alone the last four years?

I really hope the vaccine is effective. I want to have confidence the people at the helm will be competent, organized, and have no self interests. Right now, I'm not feeling it.
Last edited by chaos on Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pandemonium
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Re: Coronavirus

#847 Post by Pandemonium » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:30 am

Hokahey wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 pm

1. These CEOs have zero motivation to misrepresent the results provided by an independent body, because these same results will go to the FDA. The company does not collect the data. That's not how this works.

(snip)
I strongly disagree with this statement. There is literally hundreds of billions of dollars worth of reasons to fudge results, offer overly optimistic projections, etc. The drug companies that are front and center to get a vaccine out globally are going to reap unheard of windfalls as governments and populations stumble over each other to get the vaccine(s) and get their economies back on track. Even short term before any vaccine is out there, you have big pharma out-doing each other with optimistic early results with the intended result of jacking up their stock prices.

Just one example is when Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla cashed in on the day of Pfizer's announcement of their COVID-19 shot was more than 90 percent effective. He sold more than $5.5 million worth of Pfizer stock that day as Pfizer's stock skyrocketed on news of the surpassingly optimistic announcement. One article specifically noted "Pfizer Inc. cautioned that the protection rate might change by the time the study ends. Even revealing such early data is highly unusual." Add to that Pfizer will soon be asking for an FDA emergency waiver to fast track the vaccine to the population that will sidestep much of the FDA's monolithic review process.

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mockbee
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Re: Coronavirus

#848 Post by mockbee » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:40 am

Pandemonium wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:30 am
Hokahey wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 pm

1. These CEOs have zero motivation to misrepresent the results provided by an independent body, because these same results will go to the FDA. The company does not collect the data. That's not how this works.

(snip)
I strongly disagree with this statement. There is literally hundreds of billions of dollars worth of reasons to fudge results, offer overly optimistic projections, etc. The drug companies that are front and center to get a vaccine out globally are going to reap unheard of windfalls as governments and populations stumble over each other to get the vaccine(s) and get their economies back on track. Even short term before any vaccine is out there, you have big pharma out-doing each other with optimistic early results with the intended result of jacking up their stock prices.

Just one example is when Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla cashed in on the day of Pfizer's announcement of their COVID-19 shot was more than 90 percent effective. He sold more than $5.5 million worth of Pfizer stock that day as Pfizer's stock skyrocketed on news of the surpassingly optimistic announcement. One article specifically noted "Pfizer Inc. cautioned that the protection rate might change by the time the study ends. Even revealing such early data is highly unusual." Add to that Pfizer will soon be asking for an FDA emergency waiver to fast track the vaccine to the population that will sidestep much of the FDA's monolithic review process.

yeah, no brainer. :nod:


fuck those CEOs cashing in, and parading reveals without due course..... :balls:

:no:

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Hokahey
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Re: Coronavirus

#849 Post by Hokahey » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:00 pm

Pandemonium wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:30 am
Hokahey wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 pm

1. These CEOs have zero motivation to misrepresent the results provided by an independent body, because these same results will go to the FDA. The company does not collect the data. That's not how this works.

(snip)
I strongly disagree with this statement. There is literally hundreds of billions of dollars worth of reasons to fudge results, offer overly optimistic projections, etc. The drug companies that are front and center to get a vaccine out globally are going to reap unheard of windfalls as governments and populations stumble over each other to get the vaccine(s) and get their economies back on track. Even short term before any vaccine is out there, you have big pharma out-doing each other with optimistic early results with the intended result of jacking up their stock prices.

Just one example is when Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla cashed in on the day of Pfizer's announcement of their COVID-19 shot was more than 90 percent effective. He sold more than $5.5 million worth of Pfizer stock that day as Pfizer's stock skyrocketed on news of the surpassingly optimistic announcement. One article specifically noted "Pfizer Inc. cautioned that the protection rate might change by the time the study ends. Even revealing such early data is highly unusual." Add to that Pfizer will soon be asking for an FDA emergency waiver to fast track the vaccine to the population that will sidestep much of the FDA's monolithic review process.
You don't understand who is measuring the results, and who ultimately approves that data.

The people measuring the results are not employees of the vaccine creator. This is an independent board, designed specifically so those that ultimately sign off on the data and eventual vaccine approval have confidence in the impartial nature of the data gathering.

The people approving the data are not employees of the vaccine creator. They are the FDA, who are reviewing data from afformentioned independent board.

Point being, if the manufacturer lied about the results, that would be discovered immediately upon review by the FDA. That would ruin the manufacturer.

So no. There is ZERO incentive to lie. Because you would immediately be caught in said lie, because you do not control the data.

Also, the Moderna stock sale was pre-determined, or pre-scheduled, and ar worst reflects high confidence in the time line for results, and that the results would be positive, so to speak.

It's the kind of misinformation happening right here that scares people and prevents vaccine adoption.

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Re: Coronavirus

#850 Post by mockbee » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:13 pm

Who said anything about outright "lies"....?

The process, as currently being implemented, stinks to high hell. That's it. :noclue:

Efficacy is in serious jeopardy, due to the proce$$$$$$$$es currently in place. :idea:

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Re: Coronavirus

#851 Post by Hokahey » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:20 pm

mockbee wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:13 pm
Who said anything about outright "lies"....?

The process, as currently being implemented, stinks to high hell. That's it. :noclue:

Efficacy is in serious jeopardy, due to the proce$$$$$$$$es currently in place. :idea:
Based on what exactly? I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. Is the FDA also in on this? How deep does this conspiracy go?

But before you answer, do you understand that vaccine company does not collect the efficacy data? Yes or no.

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Re: Coronavirus

#852 Post by mockbee » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:30 pm

Hokahey wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:20 pm
mockbee wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:13 pm
Who said anything about outright "lies"....?

The process, as currently being implemented, stinks to high hell. That's it. :noclue:

Efficacy is in serious jeopardy, due to the proce$$$$$$$$es currently in place. :idea:
Based on what exactly? I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. Is the FDA also in on this? How deep does this conspiracy go?

But before you answer, do you understand that vaccine company does not collect the efficacy data? Yes or no.
No conspiracy involved. :noclue:
Just combine rosy projections, warp speed timeframes, $$$$ (like serious, serious $$$$) and general ineptitude (surely you don't think there is zero ineptitude out there....?) and that's the recipe for our current crap cake batter being put in the oven....nothing hidden in this recipe, all known factors.
(see panda and chaos above for specifics.....)
:noclue:

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Re: Coronavirus

#853 Post by Hokahey » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:37 pm

mockbee wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:30 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:20 pm
mockbee wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:13 pm
Who said anything about outright "lies"....?

The process, as currently being implemented, stinks to high hell. That's it. :noclue:

Efficacy is in serious jeopardy, due to the proce$$$$$$$$es currently in place. :idea:
Based on what exactly? I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. Is the FDA also in on this? How deep does this conspiracy go?

But before you answer, do you understand that vaccine company does not collect the efficacy data? Yes or no.
No conspiracy involved. :noclue:
Just combine rosy projections, warp speed timeframes, $$$$ (like serious, serious $$$$) and general ineptitude (surely you don't think there is zero ineptitude out there....?) and that's the recipe for our current crap cake batter being put in the oven....nothing hidden in this recipe, all known factors.
(see panda and chaos above for specifics.....)
:noclue:
I have clearly disputed those "specifics."

It sounds like your entire argument is now ineptitude. I'm not sure who in this process are supposed to be the inept ones, and what the impact is on their piece. But I can see a lot of these arguments are not well informed and are beginning to sound like vAcCiNeS cAuSe AuTiSm

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kv
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Re: Coronavirus

#854 Post by kv » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:54 pm

Hoka...look at his avatar

chaos
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Re: Coronavirus

#855 Post by chaos » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 pm

Hokahey wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:37 pm

I have clearly disputed those "specifics."
Really? Where? You think the vaccines are going to work based on a total of 55K people who have gotten doses two different vaccines, where one showed protection for a seven day study period.

No one has seen the actual trial data. The process has been accelerated, and is moving down the road to being fast tracked based on minimal preliminary data.

Oh and this if from the Pfizer website regarding the only public information that is available:
Note: These press releases were issued in the United States and are intended as reference information for U.S. investors and journalists.
Last edited by chaos on Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Coronavirus

#856 Post by mockbee » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:05 pm

kv wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:54 pm
Hoka...look at his avatar
You only wish you were me..... :pat:
Re: Who is going to win the election - Nov 3, 2020 - Biden or Trump.....?

#28 Post by kv » Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:06 pm

So gimmie that tinhat gif cut to size pls ty :banghead:

:lol:
:wave:



:cool:

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Re: Coronavirus

#857 Post by Hokahey » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:00 pm

chaos wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:37 pm

I have clearly disputed those "specifics."
Really? Where? You think the vaccines are going to work based on a total of 55K people who have gotten doses two different vaccines, where one showed protection for a seven day study period.

No one has seen the actual trial data. The process has been accelerated, and is moving down the road to being fast tracked based on minimal preliminary data.

Oh and this if from the Pfizer website regarding the only public information that is available:
Note: These press releases were issued in the United States and are intended as reference information for U.S. investors and journalists.
Since you're just ranting, let's do this. You tell me how this data is "minimal" compared to traditional vaccine tracking.

You're making assertions, you get to back them.

Hint: you're wrong. About a lot.

The acceleration was in research and development, and not waiting a typical extremely cautious full 2 years for safety data. That said, the overwhelming majority of any safety side effects develop within 6 weeks (at the far, far end) of any vaccine. And yet, they will go 8 weeks before the independent board confirms final safety data because regulators asked them to go 2 months.

Yes, this is the initial data set. But it is data set from (for the millionth fucking time) AN INDEPENDENT BOARD.

It has been tested across a population of people most experts deem more than appropriate. And actually, across more of a population (and a diverse one at that) than was required!

I have read numerous reactions from infectious disease EXPERTS that are thus far thrilled with information we have so far. There would have to be a significant increase in the population of the vaccinated test subjects contracting covid over the last week for this data to trend more negative. Even then, the likelihood of dropping below the required 50-60% efficacy for FDA approval is basically 0.

Unlike most Americans, I'm going to trust the doctors and scientists that have dedicated their lives to this. The CEOs can't manipulate the data. They don't control it.

So sit back, shut up, and let the experts tell you what's happening.

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Re: Coronavirus

#858 Post by kv » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:07 pm

You are such a dick :hehe:

clickie
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Re: Coronavirus

#859 Post by clickie » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:14 pm

So what company do I buy stock in to capitalize on this pandemic?

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Re: Coronavirus

#860 Post by Hokahey » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:00 pm

clickie wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:14 pm
So what company do I buy stock in to capitalize on this pandemic?
Most market experts believe the current stock prices for the major vaccine developer already have positive vaccine data baked in, hence some being sold off right now.

Other than that, pick an industry that's going to rebound when people are comfortable being in groups again.

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