Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

Discussion relating to current events, politics, religion, etc

Will recent protests and racial strife help or hurt Biden's chances of beating Trump

1. It will most certainly help Biden....this is a huge turning point.
8
50%
2. It will most certainly help Trump....this is a repeat of the '68 protests and strike fear in the whites who vote.
4
25%
3. It remains to be seen....could go either way, or won't really effect people's vote.
4
25%
 
Total votes: 16

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mockbee
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Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#1 Post by mockbee » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:04 am

A little early to analyze the fallout out from these protests.
But I am just curious where people are at.
:noclue:


My opinion is that this is going to play right into Trumps hand.
I don't like it and think that it is terrible, but our entire history as Americans and western hegemony (colonialism, capitalism, tribalism) supports that hypothesis.
:wavesad:


The George Floyd Election

How the protests come to be viewed may determine who the next president is. The way that will play out could surprise us.

By Thomas B. Edsall

Mr. Edsall contributes a weekly column from Washington, D.C. on politics, demographics and inequality.


The nationwide protests over the killing of George Floyd will test two competing notions of how voters respond to crises that provoke both anger and grief.

Could the demonstrations that have devolved into mayhem, looting and assault lead to victory for President Trump? Will they empower Republicans in the way that Richard Nixon used his “silent majority” and Ronald Reagan invoked the idea that “the jungle is always there, waiting to take us over” to propel themselves politically in the wake of the riots and rebellion in Watts, Newark and Detroit in the 1960s?

Or could Trump’s authoritarian reaction, both rhetorically (“You have to dominate,” “I am your president of law and order”) and actual (ordering military units and equipment to the nation’s capital) enrage and energize the knowledge class, white liberals and the young to more tightly ally with African-Americans, Hispanics and other minorities to produce a Democratic surge?

In Minnesota, where the protests first began, there are Democrats who worry that voters will turn to the right.

Mike Erlandson, a former chairman of the state’s Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party, told Politico that the rioting could convert two relatively safe suburban Minneapolis-St. Paul Democratic House seats into competitive battlegrounds:

Both of those districts will be decided in large part by suburban women voters, and it would be hard for me to imagine those people aren’t watching this scared, like everybody else, for their family and for their children.

What Democrats fear most is a repetition of the voter reaction to urban rioting in the 1960s that brought an end to decades of Democratic hegemony at every level of government as Republicans were able to set much of the federal, state and local agenda for the next 52 years.


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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#2 Post by Pandemonium » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:15 pm

It can go either way. November is a long ways away and as this year as shown, anything can happen. The riot police violently dispersing crowds so Trump could do a craven photo op at the church pissed a lot of people off but thats like one page in a phone books worth of ammo Biden can use against him when the real campaigning begins later this Summer.

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Tyler Durden
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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#3 Post by Tyler Durden » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:49 am

Either way, America loses.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#4 Post by Larry B. » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:36 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:49 am
Either way, America loses.
I wouldn’t agree with this. One option is CLEARLY worse than the other. And it’s not even a hypothetical scenario... you just have to look out the window or into your own living room and see how the current state of affairs compares to any recent democrat government.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#5 Post by chaos » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:00 pm

The protests are pushing support to Biden.

I have lost count of the number of groups Trump has alienated. He has been steadily dropping in the polls. This is especially notable in the Rasmussen polls since they tend to favor Trump.

Yesterday was a big turning point. After James Miller resigned from the Defense Science Board (letter below) and got the ball rolling, high ranking military officials (both retired and acting) have publicly denounced Trump's behavior/actions. This is huge.

James Miller's resignation letter:

Image


James Mattis's statement in the Atlantic:
James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him as a Threat to the Constitution
In an extraordinary condemnation, the former defense secretary backs protesters and says the president is trying to turn Americans against one another.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG
JUNE 3, 2020

...

Here is the text of the complete statement.

IN UNION THERE IS STRENGTH
I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 41 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#6 Post by Pandemonium » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:12 pm

Larry B. wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:36 pm
Tyler Durden wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:49 am
Either way, America loses.
I wouldn’t agree with this. One option is CLEARLY worse than the other. And it’s not even a hypothetical scenario... you just have to look out the window or into your own living room and see how the current state of affairs compares to any recent democrat government.
It's kind of stunning that the best the Dems can do is an old white guy who is borderline senile. He's a nice guy and I like him well enough but that's the best fit for the job? I'm no fan of Trump but he is going to destroy Biden by sheer force of bluster in any public debate.

And believe me, it can get plenty worse here regardless of who's President. Remember, we had some pretty nasty riots in Ferguson during Obama's term and the 1992 Rodney King LA rioting was during Tom Bradley's term, the city's first black, democrat mayor. And the US military was deployed by President Bush Sr to quell the LA riots. Thankfully, the protests in the last couple days including a huge one in downtown LA yesterday have been peaceful and it appears that's the trend going forward.

The next challenge is if there's a massive second wave of CV-19 cases in major cities next month thanks to all this.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#7 Post by chaos » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:25 pm

Pandemonium wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:12 pm

It's kind of stunning that the best the Dems can do is an old white guy who is borderline senile. He's a nice guy and I like him well enough but that's the best fit for the job? I'm no fan of Trump but he is going to destroy Biden by sheer force of bluster in any public debate.
Biden will hold his own if his teeth don't fall out. :lol:
Pandemonium wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:12 pm
And believe me, it can get plenty worse here regardless of who's President. Remember, we had some pretty nasty riots in Ferguson during Obama's term and the 1992 Rodney King LA rioting was during Tom Bradley's term, the city's first black, democrat mayor. And the US military was deployed by President Bush Sr to quell the LA riots.
We are at day 9 of much more large scale, nationwide protests. Six thousand people showed up at Boise, Idaho two days ago! The 2020 protests seem much more intense than the protests you mention; hence, your point they could get even worse - but I don't think that will happen with Biden. That is not to say that there won't be chaos if Trump is voted out, but I don't think it will be at the same scale and duration as what is going on now.

https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/t ... a5b9b.html


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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#8 Post by Pandemonium » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:11 pm

chaos wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:25 pm
We are at day 9 of much more large scale, nationwide protests. Six thousand people showed up at Boise, Idaho two days ago! The 2020 protests seem much more intense than the protests you mention; hence, your point they could get even worse - but I don't think that will happen with Biden. That is not to say that there won't be chaos if Trump is voted out, but I don't think it will be at the same scale and duration as what is going on now.
NYC has been hit pretty hard by violence and looting but it appears the worst may be done there. Having and enforcing a curfew seems to be working in hot spots. As far as LA, imo the Rodney King rioting was far worse then anything we've seen in SoCal this past week.

IMO, over the next week or so, the size and frequency of the marches are going to wind down. I think the next big "event" connected to Floyd's (and Arbery and other minorities) murder is going to be the undoubtedly huge BLM march in Washington in late August.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#9 Post by kv » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:24 pm

This is nothing like the la riots of the 90's

A million times more race unity this time...90's was a race riot for the most part...I saw the la riots from signal hill and it was burning in all directions...people were shooting at police, fire fighters an ambulances

Night and day difference...progress is slow but happening

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#10 Post by chaos » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:57 pm

chaos wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:25 pm
....The 2020 protests seem much more intense ...
Wrong word.

Just to clarify, by intense I didn't mean violent. I meant depth/purposefulness.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#11 Post by mockbee » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:50 pm

Very (most significant) organized and widespread protests, possibly ever, indeed

Hi chaos. :wave:


I think Biden is going to have his feet held to the fire on this one big time. Crime bill/whiteness of his inner circle/general aloofness and ignorance....

Not fair considering the hateful bastard he is up against, but nobody has a question where Trump stands.

:noclue:

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#12 Post by clickie » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:55 pm

So who is the front runner to become Biden's vice president?

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#13 Post by Pandemonium » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:59 am

kv wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:24 pm
This is nothing like the la riots of the 90's

A million times more race unity this time...90's was a race riot for the most part...I saw the la riots from signal hill and it was burning in all directions...people were shooting at police, fire fighters an ambulances

Night and day difference...progress is slow but happening
Yeah, I was watching it unfold in the afternoon with that truck driver getting beaten to hell on the street corner on live tv and getting a call from a buddy who lived in Hollywood saying he was afraid his music gear would get stolen from his apt and he needed to get out. My room mate had a van and we hustled into Hollywood just as night fell and helped him get his shit out of his place. You could hear gunshots and the radio was lit up with fires and violence everywhere. Heading back here to Huntington Beach in the middle of the night, we got stopped a couple times by cops as they were closing the streets and freeways but remarkably, made it back ok and stored his stuff in my garage. We spent the rest of the night into early morning on an adrenalin high watching tv seeing more and more of LA going up in flames.

About a week and a half later, we went back to his Hollywood apt to return his gear which thankfully nothing had happened to his building. But down the street, a liquor store had been burned and gutted and a few blocks further on Sunset, there was a lot of damage to businesses. On the way back, we got off the freeway and stopped for a look/see at the LA Coliseum and Sports Arena complex and the military was still using it as a staging area for a ton of hardware, from tanks to using the Coliseum field as a helicopter landing and take-off pad. The whole area around the coliseum has littered with burned out buildings, some which remained that way for several years.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#14 Post by Pandemonium » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:07 am

clickie wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:55 pm
So who is the front runner to become Biden's vice president?
Up until a couple weeks ago, I would have said Amy Klobuchar but now that it's come out she generally didn't push for prosecution of police misconduct during her tenure, including numerous cases involving the officer accused of murdering Floyd, I think she's out of the picture. Plus, Biden has recently doubled down saying he's looking for a black woman as VP which is going to limit him to a very few realistic choices, most probably Kamala Harris.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#15 Post by mockbee » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:10 am

Harris was the DA in SF and had a reputation of being cop friendly. I remember she was not well liked and not good at public speaking.

If Biden was smart he'd pick Abrams.


He'll pick Harris. :lol:

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#16 Post by mockbee » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:07 am

A primary objective of BLM and protests is reforming and ultimately getting rid of police in cities. I agree with this. Police were (literally) instituted to subjugate minority and poor communities. Why should they be subjugated any longer if they are demanding not to be?

There is no purpose to "good" policing, or good police officers. Good policing is no policing....its something else... Why pay somebody to stand around? Because they strike fear in the people who might do something bad? Well there's the whole problem.
:noclue:

The other problem the left/progressive set has is, consider who is responsible for dismanteling police. Progressive left mayors of decades long left/Democrat run cities.

Mayor De Blasio, Mayor Garcetti, Mayor Frey, Mayor Breed, Mayor Wheeler....etc
It's all on them and their left leaning cities to enact the change BLM is demanding.

Otherwise you have strawman arguments and BLM knows it.:nod:

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#17 Post by mockbee » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:28 am

This is what's coming from BLM. Understandably. Liberal cities are on the hook.


Chanting “Shame” and “Go home, Jacob, go home,” demonstrators drove Mayor Jacob Frey out of a rally after he would not commit to abolishing the police.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politi ... e=Homepage
It's going to make white liberals/"progressives" very uncomfortable......

It's either going to breakup the movement or its going to break progressive cities. Progressive whites with power are for the most part not on board with making critical change. Abolishing police departments.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#18 Post by mockbee » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:56 am

Police Unions are the roadblock.

They are very powerful. It is all about protecting redundant jobs and their dues. And it's cutthroat.
:noclue:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/p ... e=Homepage

Politicians tempted to cross police unions have long feared being labeled soft on crime by the unions, or more serious consequences.

When Steve Fletcher, a Minneapolis city councilman and frequent Police Department critic, sought to divert money away from hiring officers and toward a newly created office of violence prevention, he said, the police stopped responding as quickly to 911 calls placed by his constituents. “It operates a little bit like a protection racket,” Mr. Fletcher said of the union.
......
New York City’s police unions have been among the most vocal opponents of reforms in Albany, including calls to reform the state’s tight restrictions on the disciplinary records of officers. Amid growing momentum in recent days for making those records public, the city’s police unions joined statewide police groups on Friday in urging the Legislature to keep the law in place.

“No rational policy discussion can take place against a backdrop of burning police vehicles and looted store fronts,” read a memo of opposition from the police groups.
.........

When liberal politicians do try to advance reform proposals, union officials have resorted to highly provocative rhetoric and hard-boiled campaign tactics to lash out at them. This past week, the head of the sergeants’ union in New York posted a police report on Twitter revealing personal information about the daughter of Mr. de Blasio, who had been arrested during a protest.

In St. Louis, the business manager of a local police union, Jeff Roorda, penned an unflattering poem about Ms. Gardner, the local prosecutor, in a union newsletter that read: “You’re a disaster, Misses Kim/ Your heart is dark and vile/You’d rather charge a policeman/ Than all the murders you could file.” The union has also run social media ads against an alderwoman who has also advocated reform, Megan Green, referring to her as a “Communist Cop-Hater” and superimposing her head on the body of Mao Zedong.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#19 Post by Hokahey » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:42 am

mockbee wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:07 am
A primary objective of BLM and protests is reforming and ultimately getting rid of police in cities. I agree with this. Police were (literally) instituted to subjugate minority and poor communities. Why should they be subjugated any longer if they are demanding not to be?

There is no purpose to "good" policing, or good police officers. Good policing is no policing....its something else... Why pay somebody to stand around? Because they strike fear in the people who might do something bad? Well there's the whole problem.
:noclue:

The other problem the left/progressive set has is, consider who is responsible for dismanteling police. Progressive left mayors of decades long left/Democrat run cities.

Mayor De Blasio, Mayor Garcetti, Mayor Frey, Mayor Breed, Mayor Wheeler....etc
It's all on them and their left leaning cities to enact the change BLM is demanding.

Otherwise you have strawman arguments and BLM knows it.:nod:
This is nonsense and will never go anywhere. Very few people aside from extreme leftist will be accepting of abolishing the police.

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Re: Poll: Will the riots push support to Trump or Biden?

#20 Post by mockbee » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:58 am

Hokahey wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:42 am


Very few people aside from extreme leftist will be accepting of abolishing the police.

Yup.


Interesting though, as I only see two votes for this movement helping Trump/hurting Biden..... :hs:


BLM has no room for middle ground.
Middle ground does not exist, and never has.

Biden trying to mumble his way through his Crime Bill past and calling black people, not black, if they can't support him will be........ :no:
:noclue:

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