True Detective

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nausearockpig
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Re: True Detective

#61 Post by nausearockpig » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:14 pm


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Re: True Detective

#62 Post by CaseyContrarian » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:06 pm


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Jasper
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Re: True Detective

#63 Post by Jasper » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:19 pm

So, Charlie Lange tells Marty and Rust that Reggie Ledoux spoke of being involved with rich old men who did Satanic worship and killing in the woods and so on. He mentions that this involved "The Yellow King" and Carcosa.

Marty and Rust bust/kill Ledoux and his fat cousin (?), and completely forget about the rest of it for seven years. Seven years of women and children being abducted, raped, killed, etc.

It's not until, by dumb luck, Rust is reminded of the Yellow King and the claim of powerful people being involved in a larger cult.

Nice going, detectives. :no:

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Re: True Detective

#64 Post by creep » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:05 pm

another great episode. the women hart gets is very impressive....but what a dick move by his wife. only two episodes left. can't wait.

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Re: True Detective

#65 Post by perkana » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:07 am

Dick move? Marty is fucking prick! I didn't like her using Rust though. Loved the ending.
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Re: True Detective

#66 Post by Jasper » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:00 pm

It was absolutely a dick move by Maggie. She destroyed Rust and Marty's partnership and played a big role in Rust leaving the force.

I had sympathy for her before, and I'd possibly have some sympathy with her for cheating on Marty for revenge, but that shit was unacceptable.

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Re: True Detective

#67 Post by Pure Method » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:12 pm

I hear what everyone is saying, but I don't have all that much sympathy with Marty. He's a scumbag.

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Re: True Detective

#68 Post by perkana » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:19 pm

Jasper wrote:It was absolutely a dick move by Maggie. She destroyed Rust and Marty's partnership and played a big role in Rust leaving the force.

I had sympathy for her before, and I'd possibly have some sympathy with her for cheating on Marty for revenge, but that shit was unacceptable.
I think that was the only way it would hurt him, yeah, didn't like it had to be Rust. But hey, let's see how things turn out. And I agree PM, I don't like him as a person, talking about double standards.

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Re: True Detective

#69 Post by Hokahey » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:03 pm

Jasper wrote:So, Charlie Lange tells Marty and Rust that Reggie Ledoux spoke of being involved with rich old men who did Satanic worship and killing in the woods and so on. He mentions that this involved "The Yellow King" and Carcosa.

Marty and Rust bust/kill Ledoux and his fat cousin (?), and completely forget about the rest of it for seven years. Seven years of women and children being abducted, raped, killed, etc.

It's not until, by dumb luck, Rust is reminded of the Yellow King and the claim of powerful people being involved in a larger cult.

Nice going, detectives. :no:

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They though Ledoux was the Yellow King.

Rust isn't reminded, he's informed they didn't get their man.

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Re: True Detective

#70 Post by Jasper » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:36 pm

hokahey wrote:They though Ledoux was the Yellow King.

Rust isn't reminded, he's informed they didn't get their man.
Well, they never say any such thing. It's never mentioned. They talk about getting their man, but never in terms of any of the Yellow King gibberish. Charlie Lange says that Reggie Ledoux told him about The Yellow King, not that Reggie was the Yellow King. Charlie Lange told them about all of these rich, powerful people who gather in the woods with old stones and such, devil worshiping and sacrificing women and children. Hart & Cohle completely disregard all of that after finding Ledoux. That's my only point. You would think someone with the obsessive nature and intellectual curiosity possessed by Cohle would have followed up on some of that, especially since he knows the governor and Reverend Tuttle were taking over the investigation with their task force.

I don't think there is a human Yellow King, btw. I think it's more of a god they worship or something along those lines. The real question is whether the multi-author literary tradition dealing with Carcosa and the Yellow Sign and The King In Yellow (which goes back as far as the 1800s) exists in the True Detective universe. If it does, we might expect that Cohle could have turned something up in 1995, or certainly by 2002, when he begins investigating again, this time with access to the internet.
:noclue: :blah:

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Re: True Detective

#71 Post by Jasper » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:38 am

I got what seems to be an answer about the literary stuff existing in the TD universe:
INTERVIEWER: The cult possibly responsible for the murders worships a figure known as “The Yellow King” and refers to a place called “Carcosa.” These words come from Chambers’ book. Will you make plain what they mean to the world of True Detective?

NIC PIZZOLATTO: Yeah, I think so. To be clear, in our show, nobody is going to reference a book by Robert Chambers called The King In Yellow. Then we’d just have an episode where Hart and Cohle are just reading The King In Yellow. … I just did a DVD commentary that plainly explains [the mythological backstory], but a lot of things are left in fragments for the viewer to piece together about how we arrived at where we arrive. You know, you can Google “Satanism” “preschool” and “Louisiana” and you’ll be surprised at what you get. But instead of having our Satan worshippers worship Satan, they worship The Yellow King. [Note: When we tried doing as Pizzoletto suggests, we came up with this disturbing story of real-life Satanic Ritual Abuse in Lousiana: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/25/natio ... d=all&_r=0]
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/02/27/true- ... -season-1/

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Re: True Detective

#72 Post by creep » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:44 pm

well...one more left. they have a lot to resolve in an hour. with all of the death talk i think one of them is going to die. i will be sad when it's all over.

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Re: True Detective

#73 Post by Jasper » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:03 am

Yeah, I don't know how it's not going to seem rushed. Seems like it keeps going faster and faster. 1995 was such a slow burn.

Sucks there's only one left.

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Re: True Detective

#74 Post by Jasper » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:19 am

I really want to hear theories and predictions before we reach the final episode. This is our last chance for wild speculation.

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Re: True Detective

#75 Post by Jasper » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:21 am

Here's a starter:

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perkana
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Re: True Detective

#76 Post by perkana » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:36 am

I have no fucking clue...

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Re: True Detective

#77 Post by Hype » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:42 am

My view for the whole show has always been that they've left open the possibility (and subtle suggestions) that Rust is the guy. But as the show has gone on that seems less and less plausible, given the other people they're now discovering are involved.

I'm hoping for a wild finale, but I kind of suspect they're just going to finish with where we've been led already... they'll discover that a ton of people are involved, and then one of the guys'll get shot by some sheriff or something, and then life will go on and the show will be over, and the next season won't be as good as this one.

:confused: :waits:

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Re: True Detective

#78 Post by Jasper » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:38 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:My view for the whole show has always been that they've left open the possibility (and subtle suggestions) that Rust is the guy. But as the show has gone on that seems less and less plausible, given the other people they're now discovering are involved.
I never thought that, and I don't even think the viewership was really supposed to have any suspicions about Rust being the killer that linger past the first episode or two. It makes zero sense. It's more about what the deal is with the detectives and what they're after from Rust.
Adurentibus Spina wrote:I'm hoping for a wild finale, but I kind of suspect they're just going to finish with where we've been led already... they'll discover that a ton of people are involved, and then one of the guys'll get shot by some sheriff or something, and then life will go on and the show will be over, and the next season won't be as good as this one.

:confused: :waits:
We're definitely going into the heart of darkness. I think that's safe to say. It's hard to think that they could tie everything up in a single episode. They don't need to...I'm OK with a pretty high level of ambiguity, so long as it's done well. Something like the end of Breaking Bad could seem much too tidy. Rust makes some kind of comment about how "nothing is ever solved in this world". Will we get total tragedy and failure, success with tragedy, success without tragedy, partial success with partial tragedy, or...?

I'm torn between not wanting a by-the-numbers ending and wanting victory and redemption for our heroes. Nic Pizzolatto was a writing professor, so he knows the tropes and he knows the pitfalls. Hopefully his background can help him come up with a special way to tie it off.

I agree that there's not much chance of the next season being as good as this one. I'm willing to give it a try, but maybe this should be treated as a one-off miniseries. :noclue:

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Re: True Detective

#79 Post by blackcoffee » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:36 pm

Jasper wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:My view for the whole show has always been that they've left open the possibility (and subtle suggestions) that Rust is the guy. But as the show has gone on that seems less and less plausible, given the other people they're now discovering are involved.
I never thought that, and I don't even think the viewership was really supposed to have any suspicions about Rust being the killer that linger past the first episode or two. It makes zero sense. It's more about what the deal is with the detectives and what they're after from Rust.
Adurentibus Spina wrote:I'm hoping for a wild finale, but I kind of suspect they're just going to finish with where we've been led already... they'll discover that a ton of people are involved, and then one of the guys'll get shot by some sheriff or something, and then life will go on and the show will be over, and the next season won't be as good as this one.

:confused: :waits:
We're definitely going into the heart of darkness. I think that's safe to say. It's hard to think that they could tie everything up in a single episode. They don't need to...I'm OK with a pretty high level of ambiguity, so long as it's done well. Something like the end of Breaking Bad could seem much too tidy. Rust makes some kind of comment about how "nothing is ever solved in this world". Will we get total tragedy and failure, success with tragedy, success without tragedy, partial success with partial tragedy, or...?

I'm torn between not wanting a by-the-numbers ending and wanting victory and redemption for our heroes. Nic Pizzolatto was a writing professor, so he knows the tropes and he knows the pitfalls. Hopefully his background can help him come up with a special way to tie it off.

I agree that there's not much chance of the next season being as good as this one. I'm willing to give it a try, but maybe this should be treated as a one-off miniseries. :noclue:
From what I've read the next season will be different actors, different story, different geography. This story will be resolved in some way in episode 8.

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Re: True Detective

#80 Post by creep » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:23 pm

my prediction....hart's wife was involved in some way with the murders and hart is either killed or kills himself. :noclue: :dunce:

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Re: True Detective

#81 Post by Jasper » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:24 pm

blackcoffee wrote:From what I've read the next season will be different actors, different story, different geography. This story will be resolved in some way in episode 8.
The telling of the story will end with the eighth episode. How much resolution there will be remains to be seen.

Here's a small prediction. The person who is either the Yellow King or the high priest (or whatever) of the cult will be covered with black stars. We probably hear this person's voice in the episode 8 preview. If you haven't watched that, I wouldn't say that you should, because all of the previews have been spoilery, and I don't like that (but I get over-excited and watch most of them). One of the reasons I say the person will be covered with black stars is because so many people have had tattoos, and several have black stars. Dora Lange's friend had black stars all over her neck. The blonde prostitute who sells downers to Rust seemed to have some small ones on her arm. Of course we've heard Reggie Ledoux blathering about black stars, and we've seen them in Dora Lange's diary and on broken windows of the abandoned Tuttle school (when Rust sneaks in there in 2002). Finally, in Audrey's painting which is glimpsed ever-so-briefly in 2012 in Maggie's house, we see what appears to be a figure covered with black stars, wearing a yellow hood-like thing. You can see the painting (partially) in the giant collage I posted a few posts back. I think you need to click on it and look at the enlarged version on photobucket for any of it to be legible. Interestingly, in that collage you also see Maggie is wearing a top made up of 6-point stars...white ones, not black ones. Probably meaningless, but interesting for a show that thrives on little details.

The probable source of black stars (though not the original source of Carcosa:
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
Image
The twin suns sink behind the lake, (see below)
The shadows lengthen

In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is

Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in

Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in

Lost Carcosa.

—"Cassilda's Song" in The King in Yellow Act 1, Scene 2
Robert W. Chambers (1895)
Twin suns...
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Re: True Detective

#82 Post by Juana » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:34 pm

I'm thinking that Marty has something to do with this in one way or the other because Maggie has that white crown. He might even be the yellow king.

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Re: True Detective

#83 Post by Jasper » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:35 pm

creep wrote:my prediction....hart's wife was involved in some way with the murders and hart is either killed or kills himself. :noclue: :dunce:
I've heard people say this, but I don't quite know why. Then again, Audrey (Marty/Maggie's daughter) seems to have somehow seen something of the cult and we don't know how. I've heard people accuse her Grandfather (Maggie's dad). Maggie just doesn't seem to have done a thing to deserve the accusation. She was wearing stars in the last episode...but they were white stars. I guess she could have seen something as well and repressed it. Someone suggested that maybe Maggie's father had a copy of that cult sacrifice video, and that's what Audrey saw. I guess that's one possibility.

Do you suspect Maggie because she...doesn't seem suspicious? :noclue: I mean, Marty makes comments about the "detective's curse" and not seeing things that are right under your nose, but is there anything else besides his fucked up daughter? I'm not writing it off, I'm just curious about why she's a suspect.
Juana wrote:I'm thinking that Marty has something to do with this in one way or the other because Maggie has that white crown. He might even be the yellow king.
Wait...what white crown? Do you mean the daughters with the toy crown? Anyways, I don't think Marty's involved in a million years. There are so many reasons I think that will never, ever happen. I'm not very confident in making predictions, but I'm 100% convinced that Marty is not a cultist.
Last edited by Jasper on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: True Detective

#84 Post by creep » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:38 pm

Jasper wrote:
creep wrote:my prediction....hart's wife was involved in some way with the murders and hart is either killed or kills himself. :noclue: :dunce:
I've heard people say this, but I don't quite know why. Then again, Audrey (Marty/Maggie's daughter) seems to have somehow seen something of the cult and we don't know how. I've heard people accuse her Grandfather (Maggie's dad). Maggie just doesn't seem to have done a thing to deserve the accusation. She was wearing stars in the last episode...but they were white stars. I guess she could have seen something as well and repressed it. Someone suggested that maybe Maggie's father had a copy of that cult sacrifice video, and that's what Audrey saw. I guess that's one possibility.

Do you suspect Maggie because she...doesn't seem suspicious? :noclue:
i just think with all of the clues that you have seen with that family that someone is involved. marty seems to be too obvious of a choice at this point. i didn't even think of her father. that makes sense too.

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Re: True Detective

#85 Post by Jasper » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:00 pm

creep wrote:i just think with all of the clues that you have seen with that family that someone is involved. marty seems to be too obvious of a choice at this point. i didn't even think of her father. that makes sense too.
There are many clues that the daughter saw something, but that's about it. I just can't see Maggie being involved. Doesn't make sense and seems like a dumb/cheap twist. As for Marty, I don't know why Marty would be an obvious suspect. I think Marty is the opposite of an obvious suspect. I think that Marty is clearly not involved in any way shape or form. Marty's worst issues are his temper, infidelity, and (as he says) inattentiveness. Assuming his daughter saw or experienced something, I'd have to say Marty's only culpability would be that he wasn't paying attention to his family, and thus didn't catch it. I absolutely write off Marty, and pretty much Maggie as well (Maggie has one fucked up daughter out of two, and once wore white stars...that's all I can come up with :noclue: )

I'll allow the grandfather as a possibility, but Audrey could have seen something at school or at a friend's house, etc. The little sister wasn't fucked up, so it seems like Audrey saw something on her own.

It will be interesting to find out the extent of what Sheriff Steve _______ (Steve the Drunk from Deadwood) knows.

I wonder if we'll see Audrey again, and if she'll reveal something to Marty or Maggie. It would be an interesting choice if the show never answers any questions about Audrey. Then people could argue for the rest of time about whether she saw something or if it was just a giant red herring built of coincidences.

Anyway, I'm worried about spoilers, so I don't think I'm going to read anything about it anywhere else until after ep. 8.

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