Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul

[Jasper]

From what I've heard, it seems like if they couldn't get a proper deal for season five, with enough money to do it right, they were more than ready to take it to a rival station. I don't think we'll get what feels like a conclusion at the end of this season. I think a conclusion to a show like this is going to have a real sense of finality. That's my guess.

[ellis]

There will definitely be a cliff hanger. Every season has had one. Season 3 was the best. I couldn't wait to see what happened.

I read an article that suggested Season 5 may be broken up into a part 1 and part 2... so they could sneak another cliff hanger in there and then take a break for a few weeks.


Just accepting the fact that the show is called "Breaking Bad"... I can't see the entire story ending with the protagonist Walt winning or at least coming out on top. If I had to bet... I'd say he dies from cancer with absolutely nothing to show for it (i.e., money for his family after he dies).

[creep]

i just finished season three. i thought season two was great. there was a lot i didn't like about season 3 but it ended great. the things i didn't like were the walter-jesse relationship. the constant fighting and hatred got old. the show works better when they are working together as a team. i also could care less about hank and his wife. i wish he would of died. he was fine the first two seasons but this one he was annoying. the last three epsiodes were great though. easily the best character on the show is.....

saul

[ellis]

Welcome to season 4!!!
It's been pretty damn good. Slow in the beginning... but this ending should be another great cliff-hanger.

[Jasper]

creep, you tryin' to catch up before the season 4 finale?

You'll never do it. You don't have it in you, pussy!

[creep]

creep, you tryin' to catch up before the season 4 finale?

You'll never do it. You don't have it in you, pussy!

that is my goal. three done so far in season 4. i like this idea of watching three years of shows in two weeks. mad men up next.

[jptm]

that is my goal. three done so far in season 4. i like this idea of watching three years of shows in two weeks. mad men up next.

that's actually what i did, too---about a month before season 4 started, i watched the first 3 in less than 2 weeks... & it does suck once you get caught up and have to wait... but, still---to get caught up, it works.

a good *free* place to watch all of 'em online, btw is:

watch-breaking-bad-online.com

[ellis]

i like this idea of watching three years of shows in two weeks. mad men up next.

Same here. I've always wanted to see that show.

[creep]

ok...caught up. you guys are crazy in thinking jesse is going to die. no way they kill one of the two main characters. this isn't game of thrones. i think gus will die on sunday. with walt low on money and no real job i could see next him next season become the new kingpin. his behavior this season and some of the shit he has said makes it seem that he is cold hearted enough to do this now. where jesse fits in who knows.

[Jasper]

ok...caught up. you guys are crazy in thinking jesse is going to die. no way they kill one of the two main characters. this isn't game of thrones. i think gus will die on sunday. with walt low on money and no real job i could see next him next season become the new kingpin. his behavior this season and some of the shit he has said makes it seem that he is cold hearted enough to do this now. where jesse fits in who knows.

I can't remember all of the discussion, but I hope it didn't come off like I suggested Jesse would die. I definitely think Walt and Jesse will live into the next season, and if one or both of them dies, it would be in the last couple of shows, as the series is mainly about their interpersonal dynamic.

Gus dying on Sunday? I dunno. He either had some random idea, or it occurred to him that he'd been lured to the hospital. If it's the latter, you have to wonder what type of action he's about to take.

[ellis]

I don't remember anyone suggesting he WILL die. I suggested that Walt has only a few options and one of them would be killing Jesse. But obviously, the show couldn't survive without him.

[jptm]

so, i'm in canada; east coast... don't have AMC.

besides justin.tv, does anyone know where to watch the finale live? just curious... & jonesin' to watch! i caught it last sunday, but i don't know about tonight...

if so, thanks in advance!

[jptm]

got it---justin.tv again to the rescue----

anyone watching right now?

..........terminator-style!

[creep]

pretty bummed now that i have to wait so long now for the next season. it was a pretty great couple of weeks going through all the seasons..

ok.....

spoilers...blah blah blah...

















ok...who called that shit...oh yeah me. walt is a pretty evil dude now...killing people and possibly poisoning that kid to get jesse on his side. next season walt takes over for gus. what else are they going to have him do...run a car wash??

thanks for finally breaking me down and making me start watching this.

[jptm]

i think when this season was being made vince gilligan still didn't have a deal on the 5th season yet, so i don't know about the big cliffhanger... could be we get what looks to be a conclusion; but somehow another crazy season emerges.

see? there was no big cliffhanger; i was right---you could've ended the whole show w/this ep.

i agree w/creep--what ARE they gonna do for the next season? start making meth again to pay all the follow-up bullshit? blackmail? hank follows up and suspects walt? ..... anyhow, i was right about the cliffhanger deal, and proud of it.

[Jasper]

That was awesome.

Spoiler time starting now...

Walt's not evil, he's situationally amoral. He had his back against the wall, and he gets devious at such times. He must have had a pretty good idea that the kid wouldn't die from however the fuck he managed to administer that poison. It gives extra meaning to Walt's extremely relieved reaction when Jesse tells him that the kid will pull through. Walt must have snatched Jesse's ricin cigarette too, the clever bastard.

Next season? Well...there's still going to be Hank digging around, because he's going to need to make sense of all of it. Walt can be placed at the nursing home. He can be placed at the laundry too. Walt's remission could reverse, and I think he's pretty much lost most of his money by now. He needs money almost like he's starting from scratch. Then there's Mike - how can you have a character like Mike and then just have him fade out of the story without another mention? So, there's plenty of ammo for plot-lines.

[creep]

Walt's not evil, he's situationally amoral.

i don't know...what about watching jesse's girlfriend choke on her vomit? i watched some interview and the original script had walt shooting her up with a lethal dose of heroin. what about sending his neighbor in to check his house without any regard to her safety? his first choice seems to be murder now for dealing with problems. i want him to be a good guy but he's just not. the guy is probably responsible for over ten deaths.

[Jasper]

Walt's not evil, he's situationally amoral.

i don't know...what about watching jesse's girlfriend choke on her vomit? i watched some interview and the original script had walt shooting her up with a lethal dose of heroin. what about sending his neighbor in to check his house without any regard to her safety? his first choice seems to be murder now for dealing with problems. i want him to be a good guy but he's just not. the guy is probably responsible for over ten deaths.

10? The airplane collision is but one of the results of Walt's decision to play god. Jane was probably my favorite character on the show, but the idea was that Jesse and Jane were both going to be dead very soon, so Walt made the decision to save Jesse. It's not like it was something he wanted to do. Walt never even saw anything but the worst of her either. She blackmailed him into giving over money that he was keeping specifically to protect Jesse. Jesse and Jane and all that money were not long for this world, no matter what their intentions were. Believe me, I was not happy with Walt when Jane died, but I understood the logic behind his extreme decision.

As for tonight, yeah, he sent the neighbor in there, and it was obviously a big risk, but I doubt those guys were going to just shoot anybody who went in there. The DEA or any number of intrusions were likely to occur. Gus's guys were always pretty professional. I think he got just what he was hoping for - that she'd disturb them so they'd become visible. Yeah, the visibility could have resulted from them shooting her, but then they'd most likely have had to flee, and go back and explain to Gus that they didn't get Walt because they shot some old lady. I'm sure that would have gone over well.

I'm not arguing that Walt's a good guy or a hero, I'm just saying he's willing to go a little further and risk other people to protect his ass and the asses of the people he cares about, at times when the stakes are extreme. I mean, he could have killed Jesse, it would have been really easy, and I think that's exactly what he would have done if he was evil. That's why he's only...situationally amoral.

[jptm]

total chess game move by walt; plain & simple... he figured it out and made it happen. brilliant, really. what was funny tonight was that i started watching the stream and i was watching the chatboard and those fuckers called it early... re:bomb, bell... the wholw deal. so, it wasn't that hard to figure out... next season....? walt gets his cancer back... but somehow they'll start making meth again.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... es/?src=tp

[jptm]

here's a cool SPOILER .gif:

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsu83 ... o1_250.gif

[ellis]

see? there was no big cliffhanger; i was right---you could've ended the whole show w/this ep.

That was the intention. The writer Vince Gilligan admitted to it, saying that the negotiations with AMC were hairy and they had to write season 4 as if it were the final season, just in case the negotiations for season 5 failed. Vince said if the season had ended with season 4, he was content with the entire story. Walt had completely transformed to Heisenberg at this point. The scene where he spoke to Skylar on the phone and said, "I won." was not Walt beating Gus. It was Heisenberg taking over Walt.

i agree w/creep--what ARE they gonna do for the next season? start making meth again to pay all the follow-up bullshit? blackmail? hank follows up and suspects walt? ..... anyhow, i was right about the cliffhanger deal, and proud of it.

Well, there's a number of ways they can go about season 5...
Before I list the possible plot lines, let's review.

1. Mike is still in Mexico recovering. He's one powerful dude in this whole game even though he "seems" to have been working only for Gus. Yet he has operated as a middle man between Gus and Mexico. I believe someone in Mexico is still involved.
2. Hank and DEA are not necessarily done with Gus' massive operation. There's still the issue of the supplier of all the equipment whom I believe may be a bigger player in this business than the audience realizes.
3. Gus had a drug territory. If that is the case, there are other territories. And given that Gus' is suddenly open for anyone to take... I can see Walt being dragged back into the business as the only cook.
4. And related to the territory issue... Jesse mentioned in season 3 that it was stupid for Walt to make $90million worth of meth for only $3million a month. I think Gus was supplying other territories with meth. And if he was, with Gus being dead, those bosses of other territories are gonna be pissed.
5. Saul always seems to know a guy who knows a guy. I have a feeling he's a much bigger fish than the audience realizes. In fact, I'm willing to bet that his whole shtick is too look like a bumbling idiot but he's really the strongest player in the game. He ALWAYS seems to know how to get the players out of their sticky situation.
6. Jesse has no idea about the poisoning of Brock or the death of his first girlfriend... which wasn't necessarily Walt's fault, he simply didn't help.
7. The car wash is perfectly suitable for a meth lab, able to get the chemical products needed to make meth without raising any suspicions of the DEA.
8. With Gus dead, I believe there is a contingency plan in place, likely executed by Mike. The entire chicken chain Pollos Hermanos won't disappear overnight and I highly doubt Gus wouldn't have a contingency plan in the event of his death.

So how will they do season 5?
1. Walt vs Jesse is one angle. An ultimate showdown perhaps. And Mike would help Jesse.
2. Walt vs Hank. The DEA noose tightens... and Walt gets pinned as Heisenberg... so would Walt kill Hank to stay free?
3. Walt/Jesse vs DEA.
4. Walt/Jesse vs "unkown new enemy". A rival don coming into take the territory. I highly doubt it.

Introducing a new enemy at this point would seem like jumping the shark.

In the end, I believe that Walt will be completely consumed by his Heisenberg persona... and he will kill Jesse and Hank to survive but end up with nothing... not even his family... and die in the final episode of cancer.... the only thing that could get to him... the whole reason he even started to break bad to begin with.

[jptm]

i was basically just having the debate w/Jasper re:the cliffhanger...

...and I won.

[wally]

Introducing a new enemy at this point would seem like jumping the shark.

not quite. remember when in Mexico, the cartel told Gus the only reason he wasn't dead was because of his connections in Chile. I think we'll find out more about those now.

[ellis]

Introducing a new enemy at this point would seem like jumping the shark.

not quite. remember when in Mexico, the cartel told Gus the only reason he wasn't dead was because of his connections in Chile. I think we'll find out more about those now.

That has crossed my mind but I wouldn't consider them a new enemy. They're an extension of Gus and the writer/creator of the show already said he intends to have flashbacks of Gus in season 5. It's practically a guarantee that we'll see some Chilean story line now. And since Mike used to be a cop, perhaps they'll explore that some more as well. Maybe he's in on the bad side of the law to protect his grand daughter.

Who knows...


I was simply saying a NEW enemy would be stupid at this point. There is plenty to work with as it is.

[Hype]

Walt's not evil, he's situationally amoral.

i don't know...what about watching jesse's girlfriend choke on her vomit? i watched some interview and the original script had walt shooting her up with a lethal dose of heroin. what about sending his neighbor in to check his house without any regard to her safety? his first choice seems to be murder now for dealing with problems. i want him to be a good guy but he's just not. the guy is probably responsible for over ten deaths.

10? The airplane collision is but one of the results of Walt's decision to play god. Jane was probably my favorite character on the show, but the idea was that Jesse and Jane were both going to be dead very soon, so Walt made the decision to save Jesse. It's not like it was something he wanted to do. Walt never even saw anything but the worst of her either. She blackmailed him into giving over money that he was keeping specifically to protect Jesse. Jesse and Jane and all that money were not long for this world, no matter what their intentions were. Believe me, I was not happy with Walt when Jane died, but I understood the logic behind his extreme decision.

As for tonight, yeah, he sent the neighbor in there, and it was obviously a big risk, but I doubt those guys were going to just shoot anybody who went in there. The DEA or any number of intrusions were likely to occur. Gus's guys were always pretty professional. I think he got just what he was hoping for - that she'd disturb them so they'd become visible. Yeah, the visibility could have resulted from them shooting her, but then they'd most likely have had to flee, and go back and explain to Gus that they didn't get Walt because they shot some old lady. I'm sure that would have gone over well.

I'm not arguing that Walt's a good guy or a hero, I'm just saying he's willing to go a little further and risk other people to protect his ass and the asses of the people he cares about, at times when the stakes are extreme. I mean, he could have killed Jesse, it would have been really easy, and I think that's exactly what he would have done if he was evil. That's why he's only...situationally amoral.

Yeah, amoralists aren't good people... they don't feel the pull of morality. Evil people are usually understood to be those who know why something would be wrong but do it anyway. Amoralists don't see any reason to think anything is right or wrong.