Janes NS show LA 9/20

[SR]

How that man can deliver a sliver of what ns was seems impossible. Surprised to hear nillsons name come out of his mouth. Good god, I can't think of two more dissimilar voices.

[farrellgirl99]

Somebody once said to me, "I'm a Democrat socially, I'm a Republican fiscally."

For some reason, this irks me so much. "Somebody once said to me". As if, no one has ever been socially liberal and fiscally conservative and one person fucking blew perry's mind with that ideology?

God, this guy is a fuckpot.

[bman]

It must be so hard for someone to interview Perry. The guy is all over the place. And Perry's right. Fuck high taxes. Why should the Govt take my hard earned money just to piss it away or give it to some oil company. And 250K sadly is considered middle class in NYC too. Maybe outside LA and NY you can live extremely well, but in NY 250 a year really is middle class. But many Perry has changed a lot. I miss the "Fuck you you're all Republicans!" Perry.
so next summer is Rituals 25th. I'm just about ready for that one now.

[Hype]

It must be so hard for someone to interview Perry. The guy is all over the place. And Perry's right. Fuck high taxes. Why should the Govt take my hard earned money just to piss it away or give it to some oil company. And 250K sadly is considered middle class in NYC too. Maybe outside LA and NY you can live extremely well, but in NY 250 a year really is middle class. But many Perry has changed a lot. I miss the "Fuck you you're all Republicans!" Perry.
so next summer is Rituals 25th. I'm just about ready for that one now.

Uh.... no... 250k isn't middle class just because it's expensive to live in New York... that just means that you have to have above average wealth to live comfortably in New York.

Middle-class wages have stagnated completely since the 1970s. By inflation alone, $100,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as you'd need $288,655 for now. But $100,000 wasn't middle class in 1980, it was exceedingly wealthy.

You people are as nuts as Perry.

[Romeo]

It must be so hard for someone to interview Perry. The guy is all over the place. And Perry's right. Fuck high taxes. Why should the Govt take my hard earned money just to piss it away or give it to some oil company. And 250K sadly is considered middle class in NYC too. Maybe outside LA and NY you can live extremely well, but in NY 250 a year really is middle class. But many Perry has changed a lot. I miss the "Fuck you you're all Republicans!" Perry.
so next summer is Rituals 25th. I'm just about ready for that one now.

you're absolutely right, we don't need Police Depts, roads repaired or public schools. I'm sure you'll shimmy a pole and change the street light when it blows, right?? FUCK THE SEWER SYSTEM, let that shit back up or spew water when a main breaks.

Yea, fuck paying taxes.....

[Romeo]

It must be so hard for someone to interview Perry. The guy is all over the place. And Perry's right. Fuck high taxes. Why should the Govt take my hard earned money just to piss it away or give it to some oil company. And 250K sadly is considered middle class in NYC too. Maybe outside LA and NY you can live extremely well, but in NY 250 a year really is middle class. But many Perry has changed a lot. I miss the "Fuck you you're all Republicans!" Perry.
so next summer is Rituals 25th. I'm just about ready for that one now.

Uh.... no... 250k isn't middle class just because it's expensive to live in New York... that just means that you have to have above average wealth to live comfortably in New York.

Middle-class wages have stagnated completely since the 1970s. By inflation alone, $100,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as you'd need $288,655 for now. But $100,000 wasn't middle class in 1980, it was exceedingly wealthy.

You people are as nuts as Perry.

When I wanted to see what the "average" was to be considered "middle class" I found this graphic


I'm upper lower class, in 1984 I would have been middle class

[Hype]

Thanks for that, Romeo, that's really helpful. Notice that even in the 1984 numbers (that list 250k as the upper BOUNDARY of "middle class"), they're clear that this is HOUSEHOLD INCOME, not single salaries, though I suppose "traditional" families might have a single breadwinner who could make 250k alone, but these I think should not be considered part of the middle class -- if one spouse is able to make so much money that they can live very comfortably (UPPER middle class for a two-income household), then I think they should count as rich. The fact is, most households have two income earners and 80% of the American people make less than $100,000 a year... so even if those were ALL two-income household pairs, that still leaves over 80% of the United States well under "Upper Middle Class".

Worse, notice that the upper BOUNDARY in 2014 has been raised to $600,000. This is ENTIRELY tied to inflation. $600,000 in 2014 is EQUIVALENT IN BUYING POWER to $260,000 in 1984. But this doesn't mean that THE ACTUAL MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE, that is, the people who were middle class in the 80s, and their children, and their grandchildren, are ACTUALLY making up to $600,000 a year. Almost no one is.

There's a confusion here of what would satisfy conditions for being in a middle class that tracks inflation versus what the middle class ACTUALLY makes.

Plus, when Perry (and Bman, and LJF) have described 250k as "Middle Class", they seem to be implying that 250k isn't a lot of money, when by that graphic, and the fact that actual middle and lower class earnings HAVEN'T TRACKED INFLATION, it's pretty clear that it's actually a hell of a lot of money...

[SR]

And......I'd bet all the lolla money ever made that PF has no idea what the margin element is in regards to the increased taxation. Complacent, arrogant, ignorant fuck. Notwithstanding, the component of this interview that bothered me the most, by far, was his claim to be an artist first.

[Romeo]

also I should add when I was Googled for current income earnings for middle class it all stated "dual earnings". so today's Middle class is considered with 2 paychecks, not just one.

And as Adurentibus Spina stated, it's a average. If you live in a high cost of living middle class wages will not get you far but in a lower cost of living market you live better.

[Romeo]

And......I'd bet all the lolla money ever made that PF has no idea what the margin element is in regards to the increased taxation. Complacent, arrogant, ignorant fuck.

I think 2014 PF should change the lyrics to "Whores"
"Way down low where the streets are littered, I find my fun with the lawyers and promoters, I want much man give me a million. I don't want to pay my taxes if I get it......"

[bman]

It must be so hard for someone to interview Perry. The guy is all over the place. And Perry's right. Fuck high taxes. Why should the Govt take my hard earned money just to piss it away or give it to some oil company. And 250K sadly is considered middle class in NYC too. Maybe outside LA and NY you can live extremely well, but in NY 250 a year really is middle class. But many Perry has changed a lot. I miss the "Fuck you you're all Republicans!" Perry.
so next summer is Rituals 25th. I'm just about ready for that one now.

you're absolutely right, we don't need Police Depts, roads repaired or public schools. I'm sure you'll shimmy a pole and change the street light when it blows, right?? FUCK THE SEWER SYSTEM, let that shit back up or spew water when a main breaks.

Yea, fuck paying taxes.....

In the 60 and 70's, for every $1.00 that was spent on entitlements (Medicare, Social Security, etc), $2.50 was spent on infrastructure, education, research, et. Now, for every $1.00 spent on infrastructure, education, law enforcement, etc, $5.00 is spent on entitlements! Your tax dollars don't go where you think they do. No one said not to pay taxes. But the rich, the poor, the middle class, liberals and conservatives, ALL get fucked by taxes. ALL are paying too many taxes. No one is saying taxes aren't important, they are. But paying almost 40% taxes is pure fucking robbery no matter how much you make.

[Hype]

You're confused. No one pays 40% income tax on their entire income. The graduated income tax means they pay 40% on whatever they make above the highest threshold. But most exceedingly wealthy people (these are who we're talking about) have easy loopholes to get out of paying this.

They're not paying their fair share, and you're just buying their propaganda for no good reason. There's nothing wrong with "entitlement" programs. In fact, opposition to "entitlements" is really just another way of saying "Fuck the downtrodden".

[Romeo]

It must be so hard for someone to interview Perry. The guy is all over the place. And Perry's right. Fuck high taxes. Why should the Govt take my hard earned money just to piss it away or give it to some oil company. And 250K sadly is considered middle class in NYC too. Maybe outside LA and NY you can live extremely well, but in NY 250 a year really is middle class. But many Perry has changed a lot. I miss the "Fuck you you're all Republicans!" Perry.
so next summer is Rituals 25th. I'm just about ready for that one now.

you're absolutely right, we don't need Police Depts, roads repaired or public schools. I'm sure you'll shimmy a pole and change the street light when it blows, right?? FUCK THE SEWER SYSTEM, let that shit back up or spew water when a main breaks.

Yea, fuck paying taxes.....

In the 60 and 70's, for every $1.00 that was spent on entitlements (Medicare, Social Security, etc), $2.50 was spent on infrastructure, education, research, et. Now, for every $1.00 spent on infrastructure, education, law enforcement, etc, $5.00 is spent on entitlements! Your tax dollars don't go where you think they do. No one said not to pay taxes. But the rich, the poor, the middle class, liberals and conservatives, ALL get fucked by taxes. ALL are paying too many taxes. No one is saying taxes aren't important, they are. But paying almost 40% taxes is pure fucking robbery no matter how much you make.

For shits and giggles I picked $50,000 in income
NYS tax for a single is $2,901
NYC tax for a single is $1,707
Federal tax for a single is $5819 (that's a 25% tax bracket)

To reach a 40% bracket you would be making over $406,750 (that's 39.6% in Fed taxes you would pay)

I'm hoping you're not an accountant

[Hype]

... And again, keep in mind how the brackets work... it's not "If you make $50,000 you pay 25%." It's:

If you are a single filer and make 50,000, you are taxed at 25% for the portion of your income between $36,901-50,000 -- that is, 25% of $13,099, or $3274.75. Add to that the 907.50 for the first bracket (10% of $9075), and 15% of $27824, or $4173.60. A total of: $8355.85. Aggregate rate of 16.7%. Not that bad. Sales tax in Ontario used to end up being 15%. It's less than customary tipping in big cities.

If you're a head of household, you don't pay 25% until your income is over $49,401 (which amounts to $149.75), so you'd be paying 15% income tax on your income over $12,951 and below $49,401 (10% income tax below that, so $1295.10), or $5467.50 (on $36450). So your total income tax on 50k as a head of household would be: 149.75+1295.10+5467.50 = 6912.35. That's an aggregate federal tax rate of about 13.8%. Perfectly reasonable (that's roughly the same as the harmonized sales tax in Ontario up here).

Oh, and if you file jointly? 10% tax up to 18,150, or $1815, plus 15% all the way up to $73,800, so on the remaining $31850, you pay $4777.50, for a total of $6592.5 or 13%.

And just so we're clear, Warren Buffett has gone on the record stating that he only pays effectively 13% income tax, and that he thinks this is unfair, since his secretary (who probably makes more than most of us), pays upwards of 30%.

It really seems like American civic education is absolute shit... The Simpsons made fun of this 20 years ago when Homer started getting angry about taxes and Lisa has to explain to him that what he thought was "the largest tax increase in history!" was actually the lowest tax increase in history. Bman, are you as dumb as Homer Simpson?

Romeo is right that the 39.6% bracket starts at just over 400k. If you make $1,000 more than that, you only pay 39.6% of $1,000, or $396. I'm pretty sure if you make over $400,000 you can easily afford to pay 40% tax on it. Especially if you're contributing the maximum for all the exemptions you can make use of that us people in the real world don't have available.

[Romeo]

you know what's funny?
I suck at Math



And it's pretty sad when the Wealthiest man in American admits he thinks he doesn't pay his fair share and yet the Federal Government does nothing about it (because they don't want to piss off their donors)

[Hype]

you know what's funny?
I suck at Math



And it's pretty sad when the Wealthiest man in American admits he thinks he doesn't pay his fair share and yet the Federal Government does nothing about it (because they don't want to piss off their donors)

There's a really bad joke here about you being Jewish and money math being different than other kinds of math... but yeah... actually I think the saddest part isn't that some rich people have noticed the unfairness, but that other rich people have successfully made legions of middle-class and poor people think that the rich should pay even less tax.

[LJF]

Thanks for that, Romeo, that's really helpful. Notice that even in the 1984 numbers (that list 250k as the upper BOUNDARY of "middle class"), they're clear that this is HOUSEHOLD INCOME, not single salaries, though I suppose "traditional" families might have a single breadwinner who could make 250k alone, but these I think should not be considered part of the middle class -- if one spouse is able to make so much money that they can live very comfortably (UPPER middle class for a two-income household), then I think they should count as rich. The fact is, most households have two income earners and 80% of the American people make less than $100,000 a year... so even if those were ALL two-income household pairs, that still leaves over 80% of the United States well under "Upper Middle Class".

Worse, notice that the upper BOUNDARY in 2014 has been raised to $600,000. This is ENTIRELY tied to inflation. $600,000 in 2014 is EQUIVALENT IN BUYING POWER to $260,000 in 1984. But this doesn't mean that THE ACTUAL MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE, that is, the people who were middle class in the 80s, and their children, and their grandchildren, are ACTUALLY making up to $600,000 a year. Almost no one is.

There's a confusion here of what would satisfy conditions for being in a middle class that tracks inflation versus what the middle class ACTUALLY makes.

Plus, when Perry (and Bman, and LJF) have described 250k as "Middle Class", they seem to be implying that 250k isn't a lot of money, when by that graphic, and the fact that actual middle and lower class earnings HAVEN'T TRACKED INFLATION, it's pretty clear that it's actually a hell of a lot of money...

Well Romeo's chart says it $135-600k is upper middle class. So how do you argue that $250k isn't middle class. Unless I'm wrong $250k is between 135-600. Also I don't think I've ever said $250k isn't a lot of money. What I've said over and over again is that $250k in certain areas doesn't afford you to live an upper class life like the evil 1%.

That's right I'm LJF the fox news loving, hate the downtrodden, teabagger, and whatever less you want to throw at me. Stating the truth here just to make you feel better and give you more to chew on, this weekend I went to pick up my daughter at a friends house. I get there and on the parent's car is a bumper sticker that says 99% and I admit it made me sick.

[Hype]

I answered that already... I know I wrote some long posts, but this is why... if you don't read properly you believe some stupid shit.

Here's another link: http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/americ ... an-250000/

250k+ HOUSEHOLDS are 2%... that's not single income earners.

[LJF]

... And again, keep in mind how the brackets work... it's not "If you make $50,000 you pay 25%." It's:

If you are a single filer and make 50,000, you are taxed at 25% for the portion of your income between $36,901-50,000 -- that is, 25% of $13,099, or $3274.75. Add to that the 907.50 for the first bracket (10% of $9075), and 15% of $27824, or $4173.60. A total of: $8355.85. Aggregate rate of 16.7%. Not that bad. Sales tax in Ontario used to end up being 15%. It's less than customary tipping in big cities.

If you're a head of household, you don't pay 25% until your income is over $49,401 (which amounts to $149.75), so you'd be paying 15% income tax on your income over $12,951 and below $49,401 (10% income tax below that, so $1295.10), or $5467.50 (on $36450). So your total income tax on 50k as a head of household would be: 149.75+1295.10+5467.50 = 6912.35. That's an aggregate federal tax rate of about 13.8%. Perfectly reasonable (that's roughly the same as the harmonized sales tax in Ontario up here).

Oh, and if you file jointly? 10% tax up to 18,150, or $1815, plus 15% all the way up to $73,800, so on the remaining $31850, you pay $4777.50, for a total of $6592.5 or 13%.

And just so we're clear, Warren Buffett has gone on the record stating that he only pays effectively 13% income tax, and that he thinks this is unfair, since his secretary (who probably makes more than most of us), pays upwards of 30%.

It really seems like American civic education is absolute shit... The Simpsons made fun of this 20 years ago when Homer started getting angry about taxes and Lisa has to explain to him that what he thought was "the largest tax increase in history!" was actually the lowest tax increase in history. Bman, are you as dumb as Homer Simpson?

Romeo is right that the 39.6% bracket starts at just over 400k. If you make $1,000 more than that, you only pay 39.6% of $1,000, or $396. I'm pretty sure if you make over $400,000 you can easily afford to pay 40% tax on it. Especially if you're contributing the maximum for all the exemptions you can make use of that us people in the real world don't have available.

Buffet pays that because his isn't from income. Most of what he makes is from investments. My simple answer to him and anyone else that says they don't pay enough in taxes, " WRITE A NICE FUCKING CHECK TO THE GOVERNMENT." Stop talking and write a fucking check, put some action behind your words. Talk is cheap.

[LJF]

I answered that already... I know I wrote some long posts, but this is why... if you don't read properly you believe some stupid shit.

Here's another link: http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/americ ... an-250000/

250k+ HOUSEHOLDS are 2%... that's not single income earners.

I never said single income. I've said $250k in certain areas doesn't make you rich. $250k anywhere is a good living, but not rich. In and around NYC a family can live well, but they aren't living an extravagant lifestyle.

[Hype]

I wish Jane's Addiction were a better band...

[bman]

The whole point of this thread, was Perry talking about how 250K in LA really is not a lot of money. Perry is a rich quack now but he's spot on. $250K in the NYC metropolitan area is middle class. It Aint Easy Living as Perry once said a long long time ago. You can certainly have a very nice life and should very grateful to earn 250K a year. But it is all relative. I used to think 250K was some incredibly rich number. In the NYC area, it simply is not. Even with a 100K a year salary you are still renting an over priced 1 to small 2 bedroom apartment and not saving a ton of money for those downpayments to buy a modest house somewhere within a 60 minute commute. Real Estate is outrageous. I eventually will look at up state NY or who knows, North Carolina to eventually buy a home.

[Hype]

The whole point of this thread, was Perry talking about how 250K in LA really is not a lot of money. Perry is a rich quack now but he's spot on. $250K in the NYC metropolitan area is middle class. It Aint Easy Living as Perry once said a long long time ago. You can certainly have a very nice life and should very grateful to earn 250K a year. But it is all relative. I used to think 250K was some incredibly rich number. In the NYC area, it simply is not. Even with a 100K a year salary you are still renting an over priced 1 to small 2 bedroom apartment and not saving a ton of money for those downpayments to buy a modest house somewhere within a 60 minute commute. Real Estate is outrageous. I eventually will look at up state NY or who knows, North Carolina to eventually buy a home.

The fact that the standard of living in Manhattan, or the Hollywood Hills, or wherever is extremely high, doesn't change what most people, most of whom think of themselves as middle class, are actually earning.That was the mistake I was trying to clear up, with help from Romeo's chart. The fact that inflation-tracked upper bounds of the middle class (that is, the UPPER boundary of "upper middle class" as traditionally understood) would be $600,000 doesn't mean that the actual people who make up the middle class as it stands are actually making that amount of money.

Numerous surveys and studies in the past decade have shown that Americans consistently overestimate how many people they think are making $250,000 or $200,000 or $100,000. It's common for Americans to think 20% of Americans are making around $250,000 (each, that is), when in fact the actual number is less than 2%. That's a factor of 100 off, which I'd classify as pretty fucking delusional.

[creep]

250k should be enough to live anywhere in the united states very comfortably but people these days aren't very good with money. subtract that $500 car payment, $100 cell phone bill, $100 cable bill, $500 credit card payments and you could live much better.

i don't make a huge income but i'm debt free and own my cars outright. i also don't have a family to support. i may not be on the chart as middle class but i definitely feel like i fall in the category.

[Hype]

250k should be enough to live anywhere in the united states very comfortably but people these days aren't very good with money. subtract that $500 car payment, $100 cell phone bill, $100 cable bill, $500 credit card payments and you could live much better.

i don't make a huge income but i'm debt free and own my cars outright. i also don't have a family to support. i may not be on the chart as middle class but i definitely feel like i fall in the category.

... That's nearly $21,000 a month, before taxes... That is insane. How much are the taxes? Well, yeah obviously it depends on whether that's a single earner or joint filing, which state you're in, and how well you're managing your investments, charitable donations, etc. But it's not 40%. Remember, 39.6% only applies to the increment of income ABOVE 250k... (see prev. posts for breakdown). This person is able to EASILY afford a luxury car and a very nice house even in New York. Most people (i.e., almost everyone) can't afford either of those things even in Peoria.

You can live pretty comfortably anywhere on $4,000 a month (if you have three kids, you might want a second income, of course... but it's still easily doable). Too many Americans who think of themselves as middle class don't even make that much.

The mid-level executive making over $200,000 a year is effectively in a completely different class of living than the family of five who live on $90,000. Of course if wages tracked inflation that family should be making almost exactly 250,000 a year by now, but they don't. The only people whose wages have met or exceeded inflation are the wealthy.