Neat Jane's story from Billy Corgan

[Hokahey]

if perry or billy could make a late stage record as good as indie cindy i would cut them more slack ..

Billy could.

Perry will never make another great record as long as he lives.

Not for most fans that like the first few SP albums he couldn't.

As long as he can still play guitar, there is a chance of an old school psychadelic rock record from him.

It's not like his voice was ever good to have gotten bad. He'll always sound like Billy Corgan.

I'm not saying he WILL do something old school fans will be on board with. I am just saying that he is still capable. Unlike Perry,who is now firmly ingrained in the "hollywood rich guy" lifestyle where art and honesty is just not something he gives a fuck about.

I hear ya, and it's certainly more debatable than Perry pulling it off, but I still don't see it from him. He may not be as out of touch as Perry, but he's still out of touch.

[clickie]

I can see Billy putting together something worth listening to way ahead of sir mr. perry farrell.

[Hokahey]

I can see Billy putting together something worth listening to way ahead of sir mr. perry farrell.

And yet, for me at least, it's been a solid 15 years since he's done so. Hell, I liked Underground. I can't think of a single songe Billy has released recently that caught my attention.

[blackcoffee]

I have a theory. Your favorite albums from bands such as The Cure or Smashing Pumpkins usually comes down to your age, and when you "discovered" them

For example, I was in high school for The Head on the Door. Everything after that didn't hold a candle to "early" cure although Blood Flowers stands out as an exception.

For me and SP, it was Gish and Siamese Dream (my early 20s). SP output after that was excessive, indulgent, and paled in comparison to the first two.

[clickie]

Hey, its not our fault these bands were releasing theyre finest masterpieces when we were young,

[clickie]

Pandas 10 years older than anyone here, but he can recognise great music from multi time periods.

[JOEinPHX]

I have a theory. Your favorite albums from bands such as The Cure or Smashing Pumpkins usually comes down to your age, and when you "discovered" them

For example, I was in high school for The Head on the Door. Everything after that didn't hold a candle to "early" cure although Blood Flowers stands out as an exception.

For me and SP, it was Gish and Siamese Dream (my early 20s). SP output after that was excessive, indulgent, and paled in comparison to the first two.

That doesn't apply to me.

I discovered SP during Siamese Dream, and Adore/Machina are still my faves.

[clickie]

billy lost his cool when he lost his hair .. that bald head looks like a giant cock head .. worst bald head in the history of humankind .. still somehow better than perrys toupee tho

Billy should play the Judge if Blood Meridian ever makes it to the big screen.

How about Tom Noonan if he packed on about 80 lbs..

[drwintercreeper]

blackcoffee, that theory applies to me. I had a conversation about this with a friend years ago; I have been an SP fan since 94-95, but I was 17 when Machina came out I think... there was something about that particular age - mid teens - where that record just hit me and it remains my favorite by them (have not heard Oceania). And I still love SD, Pisces, MCIS, and parts of Adore. For my friend, it was Gish, which dropped when he was in high school. I respect Gish but haven't listened to it in ages. Machina has a stylistic variety that Gish cannot begin to fathom, despite BC's vocals.

Now that I think about it, this really only applies to Pumpkins. Nirvana, Pearl Jam's No Code and AIC's Jar of Flies hit me pre-teens; Blind Melon's Soup and P4P both hit me after my teens. So lucky I had an older brother and Beavis and Butthead (Danzig, Rollins Band) to get me into some great music, otherwise I would have been an even bigger knuckle-dragger than at present.

[blackcoffee]

billy lost his cool when he lost his hair .. that bald head looks like a giant cock head .. worst bald head in the history of humankind .. still somehow better than perrys toupee tho

Billy should play the Judge if Blood Meridian ever makes it to the big screen.

How about Tom Noonan if he packed on about 80 lbs..

I could see that. What they should is make a big budget anime Blood Meridian. That form could capture the stylized violence without requiring an X rating.

[clickie]

I dont know why I said 80 lbs thats unrealistic for someone his age. 40 lbs isnt too far fetched.

[clickie]

I dont know dude, I'm not much of a fan when it comes to anime.

[clickie]

From what Billy's saying, it leaves the impression that back in 88' the band traveled by bus while Perry took a plane from gig to gig. Unless someone drove him from tennessee to Chicago in a station wagon.

[JOEinPHX]

From what Billy's saying, it leaves the impression that back in 88' the band traveled by bus while Perry took a plane from gig to gig. Unless someone drove him from tennessee to Chicago in a station wagon.

Would it surprise you that Perry travels by private jet?

[tvrec]

They didn't have that much money in 88 to send the band on bus and Perry by plane, and I have heard Perry talk about his bus experiences. I read that little tid bit as alluding to some fuck up by Perry that kept him behind. Not that such incidents were uncommon, but I highly doubt it was the norm at this point in the band's history that he was flying city to city while the band bused. Bear in mind, too, that the shows around this time were ticketing for somewhere in the region of 6-8$ give or take a few bucks--hardly enough to allow for the indulgences we associate with P. these days. Hell, he was still Goodwilling for his outfits in those days...Sigh...

[bman]

LOL! Perry flying by private Jet on the Nothings Shocking tour. Of course not. He was probably dope sick and missed the sound check.

[JOEinPHX]

They didn't have that much money in 88 to send the band on bus and Perry by plane, and I have heard Perry talk about his bus experiences. I read that little tid bit as alluding to some fuck up by Perry that kept him behind. Not that such incidents were uncommon, but I highly doubt it was the norm at this point in the band's history that he was flying city to city while the band bused. Bear in mind, too, that the shows around this time were ticketing for somewhere in the region of 6-8$ give or take a few bucks--hardly enough to allow for the indulgences we associate with P. these days. Hell, he was still Goodwilling for his outfits in those days...Sigh...

I'm just saying... A guy who demands 62.5% of the profits or he'll break up the band is a guy with a lot more money than the other guys in the band.

[tvrec]

I'm just saying... A guy who demands 62.5% of the profits or he'll break up the band is a guy with a lot more money than the other guys in the band.

Fair enough, but the amounts of money at that time were really minuscule. This is not to say the distribution of gig income was fair, but simply that there wasn't much to distribute at all. Perry may have gotten more from publishing, but I don't think that breakdown refers to touring income. Maybe I am wrong, but that notorious figure refers to songwriting and at that point there were maybe a handful of radio stations in the country (outside of college radio) that played anything on NS. The point, there simply wasn't enough money to fly Perry around. These guys were driving around, eating Taco Bell out of the back of a van (maybe Perry got three burritos and the other guys got only one).

Anyway, I only bring this point up because in addition to how dangerous and chaotic they seemed at the time, one of the great allures of the band--at least for me--was Perry's ability to make something spectacular out of nothing, like that line in "Then She Did": "we'd go laughing through the garbage." To read Perry's current indulgences backwards into the 87-89 era misunderstands, IMHO, one of the essential things that made this band great (in a far away past).

[blackcoffee]

This is completely anecdotal. A friend saw them in Tijuana when they played Iguana's. I checked the date and it was 5/89. I was just getting into them at this point, but had been skeptical of wanting to listen to someone who had been described as an active junkie. Friend had friends who knew the band and described Perry as pulling wads and wads of cash from his pocket with seeming recklessness while in the back of their limo.

This suggests they were doing far better than taco bell, but also suggests someone flush with new money. Not managing it well, and living extravagantly. Of course, this was just as they were breaking big.

I would see them for the first time in November of 90 at Price Center Ballroom at UCSD.

[Pandemonium]

This is completely anecdotal. A friend saw them in Tijuana when they played Iguana's. I checked the date and it was 5/89. I was just getting into them at this point, but had been skeptical of wanting to listen to someone who had been described as an active junkie. Friend had friends who knew the band and described Perry as pulling wads and wads of cash from his pocket with seeming recklessness while in the back of their limo.

This suggests they were doing far better than taco bell, but also suggests someone flush with new money. Not managing it well, and living extravagantly. Of course, this was just as they were breaking big.

I would see them for the first time in November of 90 at Price Center Ballroom at UCSD.

Undoubtedly as befits a promising new band recently signed to a major record label (Warner Bros), they were able to get essentially petty cash as needed which Warner Bros would simply "bill" them back w/interest against current and future profits from merch, shows, record sales and publishing. That said, someone in charge of managing the band's expenses on behalf of Warner Bros probably had to say "no" to numerous excessive demands (mostly from Perry no doubt) on a weekly basis. I strongly doubt Perry was able to fly around the country in a private Learjet while his bandmates slogged from show to show on a tour bus even by '91.

In fact, I remember an article in I believe Spin magazine interviewing the band during the Euro leg of the Ritual tour in which Dave and possibly Eric kept to one end of the bus trying to stay clean off drugs while Perry and Perk hung out up front getting high all the time creating a truly unpleasant atmosphere between tour dates. This was when it had already been announced the band was going to break up after the tour.

[clickie]

Obviously it wasn't a private jet , but it is possible that on certain back to back nights that covered a long distance, Perry was allowed to fly commercial while everyone else drove. Did they play a Nashville show that previously night? On Eriks site they have a Pittsburg show listed in between the two Chicago shows, but with a question mark... Very interadesting.

[tvrec]

This is completely anecdotal. A friend saw them in Tijuana when they played Iguana's. I checked the date and it was 5/89. I was just getting into them at this point, but had been skeptical of wanting to listen to someone who had been described as an active junkie. Friend had friends who knew the band and described Perry as pulling wads and wads of cash from his pocket with seeming recklessness while in the back of their limo.

This suggests they were doing far better than taco bell, but also suggests someone flush with new money. Not managing it well, and living extravagantly. Of course, this was just as they were breaking big.

I was at that show at Iguana's (Cinqo de Mayo 89), the show you saw at Price in 90, and at least a hundred others, and I hung with Perry eating Taco Bell in the back of his van in 88, hung with him backstage at Iguana's, and several other times. It's true that they were starting to make money in 88-89 and struggling with how to manage it, but no one was living extravagantly by any stretch of the imagination. As Pande said of the signing to WB, there was some money now where previously there had been none, probably a limo ride here and there included with the rider, but it wasn't any more than some other small band on a label, say X or Ministry (again, at that time playing places like Scream). Even in their hometown of LA, they were still playing relatively small venues, with the John Anson Ford shows in 89 being far and beyond the biggest thing they ever did (7 nights over a week and a half in a approx. 1200 person venue). Tickets for these shows were $10. The band's Soul Kiss video gives you an idea of how the band was living in this time frame and the kind of money they had.

[henry]

Bear in mind, too, that the shows around this time were ticketing for somewhere in the region of 6-8$ give or take a few bucks--hardly enough to allow for the indulgences we associate with P. these days.

According to the flyer, advance tickets to see the 1988 Chicago show when Smashing Pumpkins opened were just $3.

[clickie]

So if you translated it to todays money. How much would that 300 thousand dollar advance for Nothing Shocking equal?

[Pandemonium]

So if you translated it to todays money. How much would that 300 thousand dollar advance for Nothing Shocking equal?

A little over $600k.