Aint No Right

Put all your questions together, call Dark Matter and ask Dave.

Pandemonium wrote:

Jasper wrote:

Pandemonium wrote:

hokahey wrote:Why is everyone so sure Jane's is going to get in?

Because Perry is an industry suit n' tie guy now. Jann Wenner and Dave Marsh are probably on his Christmas card list.

Christmas?

Aww gimme a break, I'm generalizing here. I don't know the religious affiliation of Wenner and Marsh, but I bet Perry's family doesn't ignore Christmas just because they may celebrate Hanukkah or other Jewish holidays. I mean, do you think Etty actually abstains from anything on Yom Kippur?

Oy vey.

ONE BREAK, COMMMMING UP!

(Sorry Pandy, I had to! )

hokahey wrote:

Six7Six7 wrote:

Pandemonium wrote:

hokahey wrote:Why is everyone so sure Jane's is going to get in?

Because Perry is an industry suit n' tie guy now. Jann Wenner and Dave Marsh are probably on his Christmas card list.

I'd say this is on point.

Jane's will get in simply because Lollapalooza has kept Perry in the spotlight.

The only question is whether Etty's name will appear above or below Eric's on the induction announcement.

I'm not buying it. Lollapalooza is not Jane's Addiction.

Isn't Jane's already eligible?

Can someone name me a similar band (from a general population view point, not ours) that is in?

Lollapalooza is not Jane's, but it kept Jane's in the spotlight. When you hear about Lollapalooza, it's always "Perry Farrell started Lollapalooza in 1991 as a farewell tour for Jane's Addiction..."

The 2 are always mentioned in the same breath. Lollapalooza's legacy thus has helped Jane's legacy. Even when Jane's is putting out shitty albums, Lollapalooza is touring the country playing to a million kids, or in Chicago playing to a quarter million.

Lollapalooza is Jane's Addiction's legacy, even moreso than their albums.

I am not saying they would have been forgotten, I am just saying that without the cultural impact of Lollapalooza and what it did for the legendary bands that came after Jane's, Jane's Addiction's star might not seem as bright.

Look at the Pixies. Hugely influential, broke up for YEARS, came back to huge applause... but are they getting into the Hall of Fame right away? Doubtful. Jane's will go in because Lollapalooza launched a hundred other amazing artists, while the Pixies are just an indie band that influenced Kurt Cobain. And I hate to dumb it down that way, because obviously they are more important than that. But hey, The Pixies never directly changed American music culture. Jane's Addiction's farewell tour DID.

Kajicat wrote:

Xizen47 wrote:He (Dave) wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Most people don't even think of OHM when it comes to the Chili Peppers.

I disagree with that. Josh was inducted, and he's only been on 1 RHCP album, which struggled to go Gold. Dave played on a double platinum RHCP album and was with the band when they were putting out major singles. RHCP was much more relevant with Dave than they are now with Josh. But, I can see why he wasn't included since he'll probably get into the HOF with Jane's, which makes more sense.

Cliff Martinez (drums) was inducted as a RHCP member and he only played on Freaky Styley, which people will think of less than OHM, and didn't come close to selling as many copies as OHM. Cliff wasn't nearly as essential to the band as Navarro was, yet he made it in.

Dave will get in with Jane's.

Dave didn't fit and OHM isn't that great. Inducting Dave with The RHCP would be like inducting Lou Reed as a member of Metallica, 2 separate entities that came together for 1 album that didn't work.

that's "a bit" of a stretch. OHM is great and Martinez is in so Dave should definitely be in as well, nevermind that he'll probably be inducted with Jane's too one day, I'm sure he wouldn't mind being inducted twice. I know I wouldn't

hokahey wrote:I'm not buying it. Lollapalooza is not Jane's Addiction.

Isn't Jane's already eligible?

Can someone name me a similar band (from a general population view point, not ours) that is in?

Eligibility is 25 years since their first record (which can be a nebulous term). In JA's case, I bet the HoF considers Nothings Shocking as their first legitimate album. Thus, Jane's would be eligible next year.

As for bands or artists that could also be considered "businessmen" or other non-performer entrepreneurs? Sharon and Ozzy Osbourne are probably closest as far as essentially doing the same kind of festival promoting business as well as Ozzy fronting Black Sabbath. Others, I dunno, maybe Neil Young.... or KISS, lol. Although his band isn't in the RnRHoF, Iron Maiden frontman Bruce Dickinson is a commercial air pilot and recently started his own UK-based aircraft maintenance company.

Matz wrote:that's "a bit" of a stretch. OHM is great and Martinez is in so Dave should definitely be in as well, nevermind that he'll probably be inducted with Jane's too one day, I'm sure he wouldn't mind being inducted twice. I know I wouldn't

Dave isn't quite up there with someone like Eric Clapton who was inducted both with The Yardbirds and Cream (and as a solo artist).

Pandemonium wrote:

Matz wrote:that's "a bit" of a stretch. OHM is great and Martinez is in so Dave should definitely be in as well, nevermind that he'll probably be inducted with Jane's too one day, I'm sure he wouldn't mind being inducted twice. I know I wouldn't

Dave isn't quite up there with someone like Eric Clapton who was inducted both with The Yardbirds and Cream (and as a solo artist).

Doesn't matter.

Dave wrote hit albums with Jane's Addiction, and he wrote a hit album with the RHCP.

He should be in with the RHCP for a multiplatinum album that spawned several radio hits.

What the fuck has Klinghoffer done?

I think janes will have a long tough road to get in.

SR wrote:I think janes will have a long tough road to get in.

I think the entire Seattle scene gets in before Jane's does.

Hell, I'll bet they go in the same year as Korn.

Six7Six7 wrote:

Pandemonium wrote:

Matz wrote:that's "a bit" of a stretch. OHM is great and Martinez is in so Dave should definitely be in as well, nevermind that he'll probably be inducted with Jane's too one day, I'm sure he wouldn't mind being inducted twice. I know I wouldn't

Dave isn't quite up there with someone like Eric Clapton who was inducted both with The Yardbirds and Cream (and as a solo artist).

Doesn't matter.

Dave wrote hit albums with Jane's Addiction, and he wrote a hit album with the RHCP.

He should be in with the RHCP for a multiplatinum album that spawned several radio hits.

What the fuck has Klinghoffer done?

He didn't write NS & RdlH, he played on them. Or did he write the leads etc?

Pandemonium wrote:

Matz wrote:that's "a bit" of a stretch. OHM is great and Martinez is in so Dave should definitely be in as well, nevermind that he'll probably be inducted with Jane's too one day, I'm sure he wouldn't mind being inducted twice. I know I wouldn't

Dave isn't quite up there with someone like Eric Clapton who was inducted both with The Yardbirds and Cream (and as a solo artist).

Dave is a much more talented guitar player than Clapton, but can't compete when it comes to notoriety. That's what got him in twice

Matz wrote:Dave is a much more talented guitar player than Clapton, but can't compete when it comes to notoriety. That's what got him in twice

Yes, Dave can play the minor pentatonic scale better than Clapton

Clapton has created decent/memorable songs for decades, while Dave put some outstanding guitar on top of well written songs from 86-97.

Dave can't write a good song imo

Xizen47 wrote:

Matz wrote:Dave is a much more talented guitar player than Clapton, but can't compete when it comes to notoriety. That's what got him in twice

Yes, Dave can play the minor pentatonic scale better than Clapton

Clapton has created decent/memorable songs for decades, while Dave put some outstanding guitar on top of well written songs from 86-97.

Dave can't write a good song imo

I think it's more like Clapton is more accessible with the blues stuff, and Dave has mainly been associated with darker, goth/metal stuff, which is understandably a little difficult to be popular with alot of listeners.

someguy wrote:

Xizen47 wrote:

Matz wrote:Dave is a much more talented guitar player than Clapton, but can't compete when it comes to notoriety. That's what got him in twice

Yes, Dave can play the minor pentatonic scale better than Clapton

Clapton has created decent/memorable songs for decades, while Dave put some outstanding guitar on top of well written songs from 86-97.

Dave can't write a good song imo

I think it's more like Clapton is more accessible with the blues stuff, and Dave has mainly been associated with darker, goth/metal stuff, which is understandably a little difficult to be popular with alot of listeners.

99% of the population don't know who the fuck Dave Navarro is. He really hasn't done anything of note now has he.

To other people we might as well be discussing the Tokyo Hotel guitar player.

Six7Six7 wrote:

hokahey wrote:

Six7Six7 wrote:

Pandemonium wrote:

hokahey wrote:Why is everyone so sure Jane's is going to get in?

Because Perry is an industry suit n' tie guy now. Jann Wenner and Dave Marsh are probably on his Christmas card list.

I'd say this is on point.

Jane's will get in simply because Lollapalooza has kept Perry in the spotlight.

The only question is whether Etty's name will appear above or below Eric's on the induction announcement.

I'm not buying it. Lollapalooza is not Jane's Addiction.

Isn't Jane's already eligible?

Can someone name me a similar band (from a general population view point, not ours) that is in?

Lollapalooza is not Jane's, but it kept Jane's in the spotlight. When you hear about Lollapalooza, it's always "Perry Farrell started Lollapalooza in 1991 as a farewell tour for Jane's Addiction..."

The 2 are always mentioned in the same breath. Lollapalooza's legacy thus has helped Jane's legacy. Even when Jane's is putting out shitty albums, Lollapalooza is touring the country playing to a million kids, or in Chicago playing to a quarter million.

Lollapalooza is Jane's Addiction's legacy, even moreso than their albums.

I am not saying they would have been forgotten, I am just saying that without the cultural impact of Lollapalooza and what it did for the legendary bands that came after Jane's, Jane's Addiction's star might not seem as bright.

Look at the Pixies. Hugely influential, broke up for YEARS, came back to huge applause... but are they getting into the Hall of Fame right away? Doubtful. Jane's will go in because Lollapalooza launched a hundred other amazing artists, while the Pixies are just an indie band that influenced Kurt Cobain. And I hate to dumb it down that way, because obviously they are more important than that. But hey, The Pixies never directly changed American music culture. Jane's Addiction's farewell tour DID.

I guarantee that the vast majority of people familiar with Lollapalooza are not aware of the Jane's Addiction connection, and those that are mostly just know the same guy from that band is associated.,

Matz wrote:Dave is a much more talented guitar player than Clapton, but can't compete when it comes to notoriety. That's what got him in twice

ok, perhaps I was out of line a bit. Perhaps. But I do think that Dave's core talent is bigger than Clapton's he just hasn't worked as hard and doesn't have as much to show for it.

Clapton is a hugely overrated player imo, people who think he's on the level of Hendrix and Page, which a lot of people do, are completely out of touch with reality.

Matz wrote: ok, perhaps I was out of line a bit. Perhaps. But I do think that Dave's core talent is bigger than Clapton's he just hasn't worked as hard and doesn't have as much to show for it.

Clapton is a hugely overrated player imo, people who think he's on the level of Hendrix and Page, which a lot of people do, are completely out of touch with reality.

Agree 100%. He's a good little guitar player with a lot of good friends.

Matz wrote: ok, perhaps I was out of line a bit. Perhaps. But I do think that Dave's core talent is bigger than Clapton's he just hasn't worked as hard and doesn't have as much to show for it.

Clapton is a hugely overrated player imo, people who think he's on the level of Hendrix and Page, which a lot of people do, are completely out of touch with reality.

I'm no Clapton junkie and would rank him well below Page, Hendrix and even Jeff Beck. But Clapton's playing especially in Cream was groundbreaking and those recordings still stand up to this day. Sure, by the mid 70's he was churning out radio-friendly pap and eventually devolved into a boring old fart outliving his legacy. I've never really heard anything from Dave even when Janes was at their peak that I couldn't easily see in numerous other late 70's - early/mid 80's guitarists. With Dave, I hear a mish-mash of Danny Ash, Robert Smith and any number of flashy 80's metal guitarists. He built his technique and sound off those influences but never really took it to another level like Clapton did who started off on delta blues players and quickly went in a utterly new direction.

I would certainly agree Dave has or maybe had a ton of talent but has mostly wasted it the past 20 years.

Pandemonium wrote: I would certainly agree Dave has or maybe had a ton of talent but has mostly wasted it the past 20 years.

Would you want to work with this?



No wonder Ink Master is the most successful and long-running thing he's been doing in the last few years.

Pandemonium wrote:

Matz wrote: ok, perhaps I was out of line a bit. Perhaps. But I do think that Dave's core talent is bigger than Clapton's he just hasn't worked as hard and doesn't have as much to show for it.

Clapton is a hugely overrated player imo, people who think he's on the level of Hendrix and Page, which a lot of people do, are completely out of touch with reality.

I'm no Clapton junkie and would rank him well below Page, Hendrix and even Jeff Beck. But Clapton's playing especially in Cream was groundbreaking and those recordings still stand up to this day. Sure, by the mid 70's he was churning out radio-friendly pap and eventually devolved into a boring old fart outliving his legacy. I've never really heard anything from Dave even when Janes was at their peak that I couldn't easily see in numerous other late 70's - early/mid 80's guitarists. With Dave, I hear a mish-mash of Danny Ash, Robert Smith and any number of flashy 80's metal guitarists. He built his technique and sound off those influences but never really took it to another level like Clapton did who started off on delta blues players and quickly went in a utterly new direction.

I would certainly agree Dave has or maybe had a ton of talent but has mostly wasted it the past 20 years.

I guess you're right that he hasn't done anything groundbreaking style wise, although it is somewhat original to combine those type of influences, who else has done that? But, to me, you don't have to be mr inventive like Eddie or Morello or Hendrix in order to be considered a great player. If you "just" play amazingly well like Dave does on Ritual, NS and OHM that's plenty.
Dave has that X factor, that undefineable thing, that is so rare. Which, to me once again, is best displayed at the Hammerstein gig, the guy playing there is a legend in my mind. Imagine if he'd been a Frusciante type obsessed with music, he could have done some mindblowing things.

Six7Six7 wrote:

Pandemonium wrote: I would certainly agree Dave has or maybe had a ton of talent but has mostly wasted it the past 20 years.

Would you want to work with this?



No wonder Ink Master is the most successful and long-running thing he's been doing in the last few years.

I call bullshit on the idea that Dave's only option outside Janetty, The Chili Peppers (and maybe Guns n' Roses for a few years in the early 90's) is to do reality tv crap versus making viable music either with other artists or on his own. That fact that he can do his tv and radio stuff and still be a recording and touring member of Janes shows it isn't really a matter of available time. He knows and pals around with a majority of rockers in Hollywood, I don't see why he couldn't be part of a band with a few of his peers doing original material - surely a few other guys he knows have some drive to come up with new material. Imagine a band with Dave, David J, Jimmy Chamberlin and Iggy Pop....

The simple fact is, he doesn't have the creativity or more importantly, the drive to do anything new in any sort of setting outside the safe confines of Perry's band.

Pandemonium wrote:

Six7Six7 wrote:

Pandemonium wrote: I would certainly agree Dave has or maybe had a ton of talent but has mostly wasted it the past 20 years.

Would you want to work with this?



No wonder Ink Master is the most successful and long-running thing he's been doing in the last few years.

I call bullshit on the idea that Dave's only option outside Janetty...

blackula wrote:

Kajicat wrote:

Xizen47 wrote:He (Dave) wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Most people don't even think of OHM when it comes to the Chili Peppers.

I disagree with that. Josh was inducted, and he's only been on 1 RHCP album, which struggled to go Gold. Dave played on a double platinum RHCP album and was with the band when they were putting out major singles. RHCP was much more relevant with Dave than they are now with Josh. But, I can see why he wasn't included since he'll probably get into the HOF with Jane's, which makes more sense.

Cliff Martinez (drums) was inducted as a RHCP member and he only played on Freaky Styley, which people will think of less than OHM, and didn't come close to selling as many copies as OHM. Cliff wasn't nearly as essential to the band as Navarro was, yet he made it in.

Dave will get in with Jane's.

Dave didn't fit and OHM isn't that great. Inducting Dave with The RHCP would be like inducting Lou Reed as a member of Metallica, 2 separate entities that came together for 1 album that didn't work.

I never really understood why people (including himself) say Dave "didn't fit" so well with RHCP. I'm a big RHCP fan and OHM is my favorite album of theirs, and I own them all. He played just as funky at live shows as John or Hillel, and tracks like Aeroplane, Walkabout, Stretch, the bridge in Coffee Shop, and Falling into Grace sounded just as funky as older RHCP. His live playing at the time was funky too, and he played their older funky material just fine. The harder stuff on OHM is right on track with material from Uplift Mofo Party Plan or Mother's Milk, but yes at times he was more metal with stuff like Coffee Shop and One Hot Minute (the title track). I thought he fit just fine. He was playing funky metal stuff with psychedelic thrown in. I guess Dave himself saying he had to conform more to their style is all the argument would ever need, but anyone else on the outside who didn't know he was having to mold himself into a funkier guitar player would never know.

Six7Six7 wrote:

Out of fucking nowhere - it's Marty Jannetty.