Pure Method wrote:In my classes, whenever discussing a hypothetical involving a lawyer, my professors always use "she" in reference to the lawyer.
Standard gender-neutral practice in academia is 'she' first, and then 'he', for hypothetical subjects. I prefer 'they' in spite of prescriptivist inability to recognize its use as a singular.
I'm not fond of it, but I use it sometimes for lack of a better word. He/she can be so tiresome and awkward. I always thought that "he" was just dandy, due to it being in both "he" and "she". Same with "man" and "woman". Of course it goes beyond that sort of simple logic and into the realm of atonement.
In any case, didn't the guardians of culture, some years ago, declare surrender on the issue of "they" as a singular? I refuse to look it up.
P.S. We need a smiley with his arms crossed, head back, eyes closed, and lower-lip jutting out.
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Ironically, her music in its current form portrays her as a "Stupid Hoe".
Not good for feminism. Not good for women. Not good for people.
Unfortunately, 'feminism' today has sometimes turned into a woman's/girl's 'right' to be sexualized.
Not good.
As a man, i don't think you have a right to say what is "good" for feminism. There are different types of feminists and if a woman wants to call herself a bitch or a ho and reclaim it, men have absolutely no right to say that isn't good for that woman. It goes back to slut shaming and other such issues. I am so tired of men trying to say what a woman should act like or identify as. Why can't a woman talk about her sexuality if she wants to or dress "like a slut"? It's her prerogative and none of your business.
I've had this problem lately with lupe fiasco's song "bitch bad" which has the lyrics "bitch bad, woman good, lady better". like he has any fucking right to tell a woman what she should be like and what is better for her.
You're absolutely right that men shouldn't be doing that (it amounts to proxy-parenting), but of course, the flip-side is that if I want to say what I really think about something a woman does/says (and I may be wrong about it), then it's no-holds barred (i.e., equality). Of course, I would never say what women qua women *should* do, but I can certainly describe what something appears to be, and then be corrected if I am wrong.
I meant this:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
My claim about Nicki Minaj wasn't that she should or shouldn't be doing/saying what she does or says, but just describing how it comes across, to me.
And, of course, any woman, just as any man, has the right to think or say anything and the right to do anything that any person has the right to do. I just don't understand this current trend and find it unfortunate in the pursuit of equality. Also, I understand that not every person or act has to be in the best interests of a particular movement. And I don't speak for anyone or anything outside of myself.
Anyone signed with Wayne Carter (including him) is trash. Ive worked with all of them during fests. The only one that was not trash was tyga but I met him on a floating trip with Gym Class Heroes... the shit those people talk about makes me wonder why anyone would look up to them. Maybe MXX has worked a show they played, but when they played around here they were pure trash.
Compared to bartending the JayZ or during Odd Future they were all cool, down to earth and not trashy about how they go about things.
Essence_Smith wrote:Lord have mercy...homegirl...Nicki is NOT advancing females...we can just agree to disagree on that one if you like her...the very fact that you really don't have many alternatives in the style and presentation of females in rap music says a LOT to me...
explain the part about the presentation of females in rap because i dont know what youre getting at. i dont know what says a LOT to you, especially if it pertains to how you are viewing me.
also, i dont think i ever said nicki was advancing females, whatever the fuck that means. its not her job to "advance" females.
we can move this example to Azealia Banks if Nicki causes you so many problems. im talking about the issue of female representation, not just nicki minaj.
My bad I mistook PM's comment as yours...in any event what I'm getting at is the fact that there just isn't a whole lot of depth or variation on how women are portrayed in rap music...they're sex objects all the way...back in the day at least you had the Queen Latifah's of the world...there was room for sexy AND intelligent/classy, etc...imo that's just not acceptable and while its ok to appreciate her talent and like her music my problem isn't with Nicki as much as the fact that females like her who are in rap music now feel the need to stoop to that level to make it...and to futher the conversation I wouldn't say that stops at females either...most rappers these days are caricatures and cartoon like...
Btw, never take anything in these discussions from me personally...even if I don't agree with someone's opinion it doesn't mean I don't respect the person...plenty of folks here I disagree with that I still like a lot...
Okay so how about Janelle Monae. I think she is more R&B than rap, but anyway..
Even though her musical style is not exactly the same as Niki Minaj, I think they came up around the same time. If I am not mistaken close in age too. My impression is that Janelle wants to do things on her terms and not show skin or change her image. One is taking the advice of the record people to move more product and the other seems more concerned about her actual art. There's nothing wrong with moving product,btw. My point is that if Janelle was willing to compromise more and sexualize her image more she would be far more popular. Janelle is WAY more talented, imho.
Artemis wrote:Okay so how about Janelle Monae. I think she is more R&B than rap, but anyway..
Even though her musical style is not exactly the same as Niki Minaj, I think they came up around the same time. If I am not mistaken close in age too. My impression is that Janelle wants to do things on her terms and not show skin or change her image. One is taking the advice of the record people to move more product and the other seems more concerned about her actual art. There's nothing wrong with moving product,btw. My point is that if Janelle was willing to compromise more and sexualize her image more she would be far more popular. Janelle is WAY more talented, imho.
The point I'm trying to make is that at one point we had more of a variety of types of female rappers you'd see...people like Nicki make it more difficult for females to anything other than sex objects imo...the Janelle Monae's of the world get taken for granted because of people like her...Lauryn Hill, Latifah, MC Lyte, Monie Love, etc plenty of females have rapped and didn't have to be half naked or wearing certain clothes to sell, records get respect etc...there's is a way to be seen as sexy and not be a sex object imo...
I think FG is right, though, that if some girl wants to be half naked and sell records, that's totally her prerogative (oh god... Britney... why did your 60-year-old male handlers write you that shitty song!? You've ruined that word forever!). And men shouldn't be saying that women *shouldn't* do so.
Well, of course that's true, except that I think NO ONE should do so, irrespective of gender.
Adurentibus Spina wrote:I think FG is right, though, that if some girl wants to be half naked and sell records, that's totally her prerogative (oh god... Britney... why did your 60-year-old male handlers write you that shitty song!? You've ruined that word forever!). And men shouldn't be saying that women *shouldn't* do so.
Well, of course that's true, except that I think NO ONE should do so, irrespective of gender.
Lots of things that can be done which doesn't mean they're to be done...I'm done here...if people are ok with that kinda thing that's fine, but again it makes raising young girls a bit more challenging and I think the kids into that kinda music are seriously being short changed...
Adurentibus Spina wrote:I think FG is right, though, that if some girl wants to be half naked and sell records, that's totally her prerogative (oh god... Britney... why did your 60-year-old male handlers write you that shitty song!? You've ruined that word forever!). And men shouldn't be saying that women *shouldn't* do so.
Well, of course that's true, except that I think NO ONE should do so, irrespective of gender.
Yeah thats basically all im arguing now. Dave walks around with his shirt off 90% of the time in tight leather pants and fucks copious amount of women. No one cares. A woman who does that is suddenly a bad example for young girls. Bullshit.
Anyway, I'll stop arguing this too and go listen to some Tribe
Adurentibus Spina wrote:I think FG is right, though, that if some girl wants to be half naked and sell records, that's totally her prerogative (oh god... Britney... why did your 60-year-old male handlers write you that shitty song!? You've ruined that word forever!). And men shouldn't be saying that women *shouldn't* do so.
Well, of course that's true, except that I think NO ONE should do so, irrespective of gender.
Yeah thats basically all im arguing now. Dave walks around with his shirt off 90% of the time in tight leather pants and fucks copious amount of women. No one cares. A woman who does that is suddenly a bad example for young girls. Bullshit.
Anyway, I'll stop arguing this too and go listen to some Tribe
Adurentibus Spina wrote: I see. Well, now the problem is clearer. You just have questionable taste in music.
from what i talk about on this board, it does look like i have terrible taste. yes, i do love britney spears and lady gaga. and some random pop songs here and there. but honestly after that, i stick to more 'respectable' things. i do love janes after all, right? doesnt that save all of us
ps - ive been listening to this song on repeat a lot lately. i dont listen to david guetta or sia, but isnt this great pop/dance/whatever?
Adurentibus Spina wrote:I think FG is right, though, that if some girl wants to be half naked and sell records, that's totally her prerogative (oh god... Britney... why did your 60-year-old male handlers write you that shitty song!? You've ruined that word forever!). And men shouldn't be saying that women *shouldn't* do so.
Well, of course that's true, except that I think NO ONE should do so, irrespective of gender.
Lots of things that can be done which doesn't mean they're to be done...I'm done here...if people are ok with that kinda thing that's fine, but again it makes raising young girls a bit more challenging and I think the kids into that kinda music are seriously being short changed...
It doesn't seem people necessarily disagree about too much here.....just maybe on what constitutes good or decent music.
Anyways, ES or FG, if you are interested in young girls being saturated by particular influences as discussed, this book is very good. I have read excerpts and many people have said that it is excellent, if not completely demoralizing........... :cona:
Cinderella Ate My Daughter: Dispatches from the Front Lines of the New Girlie-Girl Culture
Peggy Orenstein
I see. Well, now the problem is clearer. You just have questionable taste in music. 
:cona: