The official "The Great Escape Artist" thread

[blackula]

Not sure how I feel about this. I wonder if the thought process was "Man, we laid down some quality material with Duff, let's include it!" or "Shit, deadline is coming, already bumped it back, throw the Duff shit in!"

Either way, buckle up for some rawk. I know this community is all about that shit.

I think you're absolutely right with the second scenario. These dudes do not let a song or part die when it comes to filling out that track listing. How many releases has Jane Says been on? Suffer Some on Strays? Blood Rag? Studio versions of Whores and Chip Away in 2009? I wouldn't be surprised if a Slow Divers, 1%, My Time or Trip Away studio version appears on Great Escape Artist, judging from the track record. I'm just scared they "shot their load" with End To The Lies and Irresistable Force and the rest of the album will be the rawk we got with Strays, a Duff song or two, and a blast from the past. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[JOEinPHX]

Don't just assume that what they wrote with Duff will appear as they wrote it.

Case in point: Just Because started as a slow acoustic number, did it not?

Suffer some started out good, did it not?

[Jasper]

I've mentioned a bunch of times that some Duff stuff, particularly Another Soulmate, (think that's the name) was "radically reworked" with Sitek.

I guess Dave and Steve wanted to scrap all that Duff stuff out of anger/frustration with his departure, but Perry thought there was some potential there. Scary, I know, but I have some faith that Sitek would've had some ability to steer it away from its boring cock-rock origins. That doesn't mean it will be good, but at least it will be more interesting, and I'll take an interesting failure over a middling by-the-numbers track any day.

[CaseyContrarian]

I've mentioned a bunch of times that some Duff stuff, particularly Another Soulmate, (think that's the name) was "radically reworked" with Sitek.

I guess Dave and Steve wanted to scrap all that Duff stuff out of anger/frustration with his departure, but Perry thought there was some potential there. Scary, I know, but I have some faith that Sitek would've had some ability to steer it away from its boring cock-rock origins. That doesn't mean it will be good, but at least it will be more interesting, and I'll take an interesting failure over a middling by-the-numbers track any day.

I just find it telling that Perry, Steve and Dave are literally so incapable of writing songs that they require a Duff, a Sitek or even an Ezrin to assist them in penning new material. Why is it so hard?

Obviously, the writer's block extends to all current members of JA. We all know the majority of classic JA tunes were composed before either Dave or Perk joined. Perry has, in the past, made a huge deal out of how much material he wrote; the royalty splits confirm his attitude. He still brags about his output. "We've got enough material for three albums," he said during the first phase of TGEA. Maybe in his head.

Eric built the foundations of the JA 1.0 house. Perk and Dave were day laborers. Casey was the interior decorator. Perry was the real estate agent. He threw a hell of an open house though.

[JOEinPHX]

"We've got enough material for three albums," he said during the first phase of TGEA. Maybe in his head.

Well, i mean, keep it in context.

Jane's Addiction think albums have 8-9 songs.

That's only 24-27 songs.

To put that in context, some bands have 16 track albums. (or a 13 track album, with 3 extra on the overseas release. But i digress...) Which would mean Jane's have an album and a half worth of material.

And some bands, like the RHCP, record 50 songs before they even pick the track listing.

"3 albums worth of material" means "I, Perry Farrell, have some sound samples on my computer and some poems about Eric and Etty"

[trevor ayer]

I get the feeling that perry does not necessarily dig playing in jane's. I think he does it for the money and in terms of songwriting I think he loves Dave and Steve and wants them to have the record to come from their creativity. It's a good point tho, that a fair chunk was written before Dave and Stephen stepped in. Therefore the music is completely different than the original Janes because those 2 did not write a lot of the original stuff. I think it's fair to say that a majority came from Perry and Eric far more than Dave or Stephen. Now that Eric is gone, and now that Perry is not really into writing in that style anymore, he is minimizing his contribution as well, and letting Dave and Stephen come up with the music. I think perry reallly likes his electronic stuff and that is where he is putting his passion. So yeah, there are lots of reasons this record will sound nothing like the classic janes songs that the band made their success from. Perhaps if perry came up with the music and let dave and steve embellish it might have a chance, but as I said, perry is all about the techno gadgets and not about the pretty little melodies on the acoustic guitar anymore. It's not just Eric that is absent, musically Perry has stepped aside as well. Thats not to say what Dave and Steve are coming up with are not good. Just a totally different band at this point.

[JOEinPHX]

i would totally agree with that.

I don't imagine Perry sitting on the floor with some candles and an acoustic. More like he plugs in some blips and bleeps with his macbook to "bring Jane's into the future" or however he puts it. It basically just means his contribution gets to be that and not much else.

Maybe Dave relapsed because all the pressure is basically on him. He's recording guitar. He's recording bass. He's probably recording piano/keys as well.

Everything but the drums is basically on his shoulders. And Capital is pushing for it all to be done by a certain time.



Someone get Perry one of those new Dave Navarro acoustic guitars and send him to the beach for a few weeks without the wife and kids.

[Juana]

I've said many times that I thought GGU was Perry at his finest post-Janes. And like 67 said up there we just need to give him an acoustic guitar, a surf board and send him to Bali for a month without anyone else to distract him. I think the Perry we all loved would at least be in the ball park and not across town stuck in traffic fucking around with a "sick" beat on his iPad.

[JOEinPHX]

i love when we're all on the same page.

Let's start a band.

[Larry B.]

And some bands, like the RHCP, record 50 songs before they even pick the track listing.

In my opinion, that's the way it should be.

I remember "fighting" with my bands because whenever we recorded an album, they wanted to select the songs and record only those songs. I said "dude, we should just record as much as we can and THEN pick the songs...

Of course, it was a lost cause.

Michael Jackson recorded over 100 demos for Thriller, before fully recording 30 songs for the album, of which they (Jackson and Quincy Jones) selected 9.

That's the way it works. Not recording 9 demos and spending 2 years playing with them.

[trevor ayer]

hmm .. i think that is what janes does now .. avery, duff, sitek, cheney all had sessions with different songs that may or may not show up and I thought I heard they had like 30 songs

I think they should do what they used to do .. write 50 songs but take 20 of them and combine them into 7 epic monsters like 3 days ted then she did

there is too many goddamn words in these short songs .. mountain song didn't have 50 fuckin sylables in every verse

these songs need to be stretched out then they won't suck as bad

[JOEinPHX]

hmm .. i think that is what janes does now .. avery, duff, sitek, cheney all had sessions with different songs that may or may not show up and I thought I heard they had like 30 songs

I think they should do what they used to do .. write 50 songs but take 20 of them and combine them into 7 epic monsters like 3 days ted then she did

there is too many goddamn words in these short songs .. mountain song didn't have 50 fuckin sylables in every verse

these songs need to be stretched out then they won't suck as bad

it would help if Perry had something worth writing about.

[Larry B.]

hmm .. i think that is what janes does now .. avery, duff, sitek, cheney all had sessions with different songs that may or may not show up and I thought I heard they had like 30 songs

I think they should do what they used to do .. write 50 songs but take 20 of them and combine them into 7 epic monsters like 3 days ted then she did

you gotta remember that for these guys a "song" is what is commonly known as a snippet. Or even a riff. Sometimes, you can make a song out of something like that (think Mountain Song or Jane Says), but having 30 songs is very, very different from having 30 snippets. 30 songs are made up for, let's say, 120 snippets. if you have 30 snippets you might have 10 songs, out of which maybe 2 or 3 are good.

What JA does these days try to compose songs, and they suck at it. They're trying to write rock ballads, and they suck at it. Or maybe they do it right, but rock ballads suck balls.

You guys remember those early days versions of Kettle Whistle? that's one fucking epic, delicious, hypnotic piece of music. Yet, it was never really considered complete. That song is, basically, 3 snippets with good lyrics. There was counterpoint and awesome rhythms, of which JA was probably unaware. Today, it's like "ok, I have this 4-minute base, let's try to modify it so that it sounds great".

It won't. That's not the way it works.

You wanna hear two guys making snippets work? Get the Deconstruction CD.

[CaseyContrarian]

hmm .. i think that is what janes does now .. avery, duff, sitek, cheney all had sessions with different songs that may or may not show up and I thought I heard they had like 30 songs

I think they should do what they used to do .. write 50 songs but take 20 of them and combine them into 7 epic monsters like 3 days ted then she did

you gotta remember that for these guys a "song" is what is commonly known as a snippet. Or even a riff. Sometimes, you can make a song out of something like that (think Mountain Song or Jane Says), but having 30 songs is very, very different from having 30 snippets. 30 songs are made up for, let's say, 120 snippets. if you have 30 snippets you might have 10 songs, out of which maybe 2 or 3 are good.

What JA does these days try to compose songs, and they suck at it. They're trying to write rock ballads, and they suck at it. Or maybe they do it right, but rock ballads suck balls.

You guys remember those early days versions of Kettle Whistle? that's one fucking epic, delicious, hypnotic piece of music. Yet, it was never really considered complete. That song is, basically, 3 snippets with good lyrics. There was counterpoint and awesome rhythms, of which JA was probably unaware. Today, it's like "ok, I have this 4-minute base, let's try to modify it so that it sounds great".

It won't. That's not the way it works.

You wanna hear two guys making snippets work? Get the Deconstruction CD.

I actually think that the lyrics to Kettle Whistle suck. The rest of what you're laying down here, I agree with. I still am blown away when I consider the missed opportunity of JA writing with Eric. The fact that they couldn't get their shit together is a minor tragedy. What I really want to know is whether Navarro has ANY songwriting capability. Shit, I'm not convinced he has any riff writing ability. Everything cool he did in that department was him playing off Avery. We have identical interests on guitar, and are around the same age (I'm about 4 years younger). Not to toot my own horn, but I likely would have played similarly under similar conditions. I also wonder if Perry can write anything interesting now. Unlike some posters, however, I still think he comes up with unique melodies -- it's just a facet of his expression.

Ultimately, with your two principal band figures creatively atrophied, what can we expect? That they can put together a rawk ballad is a minor miracle. But they still need a small army of collaborators to even pull off a track like Irresistable Force. Which is just sad.

[Pure Method]

I like some songs off of spread

[JOEinPHX]

I like some songs off of spread

Yeah but that was Dave on heroin

It's well done because he was thinking "art project" and not "hey what can get this on the radio?" (as he did later with the TNO versions)

Perry is the same way. While on heroin, he was thinking "art project" and later it turned into "what will get me spins on the radio"

That article about WB ruining them is pretty close to being spot on, although the sobriety thing is part of it. They look at music as their living, rather than "art project"

[JOEinPHX]

You know who could probably turn them around for the better?

[Jasper]

I actually think that the lyrics to Kettle Whistle suck. The rest of what you're laying down here, I agree with. I still am blown away when I consider the missed opportunity of JA writing with Eric. The fact that they couldn't get their shit together is a minor tragedy. What I really want to know is whether Navarro has ANY songwriting capability. Shit, I'm not convinced he has any riff writing ability. Everything cool he did in that department was him playing off Avery. We have identical interests on guitar, and are around the same age (I'm about 4 years younger). Not to toot my own horn, but I likely would have played similarly under similar conditions. I also wonder if Perry can write anything interesting now. Unlike some posters, however, I still think he comes up with unique melodies -- it's just a facet of his expression.

Ultimately, with your two principal band figures creatively atrophied, what can we expect? That they can put together a rawk ballad is a minor miracle. But they still need a small army of collaborators to even pull off a track like Irresistable Force. Which is just sad.

Kettle Whistle is perfect and don't forget that Dave wrote Stop! and I think he's come up with great riffs without EA. He had some good stuff on OHM.

Yeah but that was Dave on heroin

Woah, hold on - Dave keeps getting strung out to this day. I don't think we really need to encourage him. I mean, if being hooked on drugs makes Dave great, then this album will be incredible, right?

If anything I'd just encourage Dave to smoke weed, listen to good music, and get away from the Hollywood lifestyle.

[JOEinPHX]

i seriously do think this will be the most interesting stuff Dave has recorded since Spread.

i just think it's going to be polished to a high gloss and layered with shitty lyrics from Perry.

[Tyler Durden]

Album delayed again. Now out October 18th. This thing is going to suck balls.

[Hokahey]

These guys have never released albums on time. Ever. No big surprise.

[Tyler Durden]

These guys have never released albums on time. Ever. No big surprise.

I have no idea if Nothing's Shocking or Ritual were delayed. But Good Gods Urge was...though they had a good excuse: lots of crack smoking.

Strays was delayed because they "overcooked" it.

Just seems odd that this isn't one big long delay...it's numerous small delays...like they are tweaking the album over and over again until it sucks.

[Hokahey]

These guys have never released albums on time. Ever. No big surprise.

I have no idea if Nothing's Shocking or Ritual were delayed. But Good Gods Urge was...though they had a good excuse: lots of crack smoking.

Strays was delayed because they "overcooked" it.

Just seems odd that this isn't one big long delay...it's numerous small delays...like they are tweaking the album over and over again until it sucks.

Add:

SYTBS

TNO

This is par for the course...

[Matz]

I actually think that the lyrics to Kettle Whistle suck. The rest of what you're laying down here, I agree with. I still am blown away when I consider the missed opportunity of JA writing with Eric. The fact that they couldn't get their shit together is a minor tragedy. What I really want to know is whether Navarro has ANY songwriting capability. Shit, I'm not convinced he has any riff writing ability.

he wrote most of Strays, Just Because, True Nature, Price I pay are really solid and good songs, not like old Jane's I know, I know, but still, so it's pretty silly to question his songwriting abilities when in fact they're much better than most musicians outthere

[Hokahey]

FWIW

Perry wrote Just Because on a laptop. Supposedly the song was practically complete.