JA's current Capitol deal (and promotion)

[CaseyContrarian]

360 deals are pretty much the standard these days...3 yrs ago I was in a band that had a bunch of majors at every show and that's all they were offering...hence why I'm back in corporate america...the only way to make money is to at least go platinum...otherwise you're playing LG shows...

Record labels are dinosaurs in the tar pit...thrashing about and trying to grab on to anything they can.

Let them die.

buuuut.... then how will the poor 60 year old balding millionaire executives afford their cocaine habits?

Kids today... they all just have their greedy little hands out, demanding "fair compensation" for their work and "ownership of the works they create from scratch".

Disgusting really.

That isn't capitalism.

I agree with ES that the only deals the majors offer are 360s at this point. Without blowing my cover (which isn't much of one anyway), I work in the business, on the music-tech-policy side, and it really just pisses me off that artists -- as usual -- bear the brunt of the inflexible, backwards, greedy, protectionist actions of the major labels and their legal/lobby front here in DC. (Can you tell which side I'm on?)

Anyway, Jane's are more than content to cash out, now honey -- they've already sullied their legacy so much that a few more dings will hardly matter. I just hate that they pretend it has anything to do with art or the creative spark. Dave's the worst, because a) he's my main influence (after Jimmy Page); discovered the XXX album as a 16 year-old guitarist, and b) he seems so reasonable that I WANT to believe him. Really, it's a two-pronged con from him and Perry. Stephen, well, he's a great drummer.

[Hokahey]

That isn't capitalism.

As always, the free market won again with the advent of the internet and being able to self-release albums. Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers it will die eventually.

If Jane's was still teamed with Trent, they could have used his model that much more easily.

Imagine the level of respect they'd be getting. It would be the ultimate "Jane's Addiction" move. Jane's with Eric thumbing their noses to the majors and self releasing their Trent Reznor produced album with whatever artwork they chose. Their playing of all of these festivals would have been more justifiable.

Hell, have Trent produce a video too.

[Jasper]

Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers...

You must mean when the consumers suddenly discovered a way to steal as much of the business's product as they want.

The record industry wasn't diminished because people didn't want their product, or because people became able to self-release albums. Self-released albums aren't making much money in the grand scheme of things - mostly they're acting as advertisements for live performances. The industry was diminished because people elected to steal rather than go the route of being consumers, in the capitalist sense of the word.

Hooray for anti-capitalist crime!

[Hokahey]

Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers...

You must mean when the consumers suddenly discovered a way to steal as much of the business's product as they want.

The record industry wasn't diminished because people didn't want their product, or because people became able to self-release albums. Self-released albums aren't making much money in the grand scheme of things - mostly they're acting as advertisements for live performances. The industry was diminished because people elected to steal rather than go the route of being consumers, in the capitalist sense of the word.

Hooray for anti-capitalist crime!

1. I'd argue that file sharing would have never caught on as much as it did had compact discs not been grossly overpriced to begin with.

2. Most artists couldn't care less that the RIAA is dying.

No one is stepping in to help because as a producer no one cares about their distribution methods exactly because their model and delivery of product was flawed and unsustainable.

That's what happens, or should unless the government steps in to bail them out, when you have an entity that has become antiquated due to it's own poor business paractices. No one's rallying around to save them.

[Tyler Durden]

That isn't capitalism.

As always, the free market won again with the advent of the internet and being able to self-release albums. Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers it will die eventually.

If Jane's was still teamed with Trent, they could have used his model that much more easily.

Imagine the level of respect they'd be getting. It would be the ultimate "Jane's Addiction" move. Jane's with Eric thumbing their noses to the majors and self releasing their Trent Reznor produced album with whatever artwork they chose. Their playing of all of these festivals would have been more justifiable.

Hell, have Trent produce a video too.

Amen brother.

As we former xiolians have previously discussed, back in '08/'09, the band (w/Eric) was really onto something. They looked like they were going to remove the stain on their legacy that was Strays and rebuild the band from the ground up. They had a renewed image and vibe that temporarily restored their credibility. Then they fucked it up. Now the band seems to back to where they were in '03. I can't want for the follow-up to "(ONe)".

[Hokahey]

Now the band seems to back to where they were in '03.

I don't entirely agree. I like what they're doing now more so than compared to 2003. The stage shows have gotten better presentation wise. Remember the shiny metallic platforms from Lolla 2003? Dave's glitter pants?

I like the IF and ETTL videos better than the Strays videos.

I think the new music is less embarassing.

I'm not trying to convince anyone these guys are back to their glory days, but if OG Jane's was a 10, Strays was a 4 and this is a 4.2

[Tyler Durden]

Now the band seems to back to where they were in '03.

I don't entirely agree. I like what they're doing now more so than compared to 2003. The stage shows have gotten better presentation wise. Remember the shiny metallic platforms from Lolla 2003? Dave's glitter pants?

I like the IF and ETTL videos better than the Strays videos.

I think the new music is less embarassing.

I'm not trying to convince anyone these guys are back to their glory days, but if OG Jane's was a 10, Strays was a 4 and this is a 4.2

As I was reading this, I was thinking "Hoka is splitting hairs". Nice ending.

[Jasper]

Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers...

You must mean when the consumers suddenly discovered a way to steal as much of the business's product as they want.

The record industry wasn't diminished because people didn't want their product, or because people became able to self-release albums. Self-released albums aren't making much money in the grand scheme of things - mostly they're acting as advertisements for live performances. The industry was diminished because people elected to steal rather than go the route of being consumers, in the capitalist sense of the word.

Hooray for anti-capitalist crime!

1. I'd argue that file sharing would have never caught on as much as it did had compact discs not been grossly overpriced to begin with.

2. Most artists couldn't care less that the RIAA is dying.

No one is stepping in to help because as a producer no one cares about their distribution methods exactly because their model and delivery of product was flawed and unsustainable.

That's what happens, or should unless the government steps in to bail them out, when you have an entity that has become antiquated due to it's own poor business paractices. No one's rallying around to save them.

A lot of things are over-priced. Hell, most things, I'd say. Should I steal those things, too? If CDs had been five dollars when napster came around, I'm pretty sure people would have pirated them anyways, eventually. I know I would have. Maybe it wouldn't have happened as fast, but my preferred price is zero on all goods, and that seems to hold true for most people.

That most artists don't care that the RIAA is hurting doesn't matter; most artists could never get a record deal in the first place.

So, I agree with you. Fuck capitalist fat cats. Let's steal. Everything. Then, when they're all bled dry, we can actually live in a sustainable world.

[Tyler Durden]

Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers...

You must mean when the consumers suddenly discovered a way to steal as much of the business's product as they want.

The record industry wasn't diminished because people didn't want their product, or because people became able to self-release albums. Self-released albums aren't making much money in the grand scheme of things - mostly they're acting as advertisements for live performances. The industry was diminished because people elected to steal rather than go the route of being consumers, in the capitalist sense of the word.

Hooray for anti-capitalist crime!

1. I'd argue that file sharing would have never caught on as much as it did had compact discs not been grossly overpriced to begin with.

2. Most artists couldn't care less that the RIAA is dying.

No one is stepping in to help because as a producer no one cares about their distribution methods exactly because their model and delivery of product was flawed and unsustainable.

That's what happens, or should unless the government steps in to bail them out, when you have an entity that has become antiquated due to it's own poor business paractices. No one's rallying around to save them.

A lot of things are over-priced. Hell, most things, I'd say. Should I steal those things, too? If CDs had been five dollars when napster came around, I'm pretty sure people would have pirated them anyways, eventually. I know I would have. Maybe it wouldn't have happened as fast, but my preferred price is zero on all goods, and that seems to hold true for most people.

That most artists don't care that the RIAA is hurting doesn't matter; most artists could never get a record deal in the first place.

So, I agree with you. Fuck capitalist fat cats. Let's steal. Everything. Then, when they're all bled dry, we can actually live in a sustainable world.

Ironic that you're not allowed to hot link to a jpeg that endorses grand theft auto.

[Pandemonium]

A lot of things are over-priced. Hell, most things, I'd say. Should I steal those things, too? If CDs had been five dollars when napster came around, I'm pretty sure people would have pirated them anyways, eventually. I know I would have. Maybe it wouldn't have happened as fast, but my preferred price is zero on all goods, and that seems to hold true for most people.

That most artists don't care that the RIAA is hurting doesn't matter; most artists could never get a record deal in the first place.

So, I agree with you. Fuck capitalist fat cats. Let's steal. Everything. Then, when they're all bled dry, we can actually live in a sustainable world.

I pretty much agree with what you're saying. Technology and a sense of entitlement on the consumer end sped the demise of the traditional way artists profited from (and where profited from) their work.

But I also agree that the standard record company business model has always been designed to rape the artist, most of whom have zero business sense and relied on lawyers, managers, etc who also happily fucked them over. There's so many bands who've lost their publishing rights to their own music to satisfy a label's contract because they were fronted/billed so much money for everything from producing albums and touring to stupid shit like parties, drugs and personal purchases like cars and homes. Think about it - most artists are barely out of High School and playing music and chasing pussy is about the extent of their skill set and they land a complicated record deal with a couple million dollar advance and who-knows-what interest..... yeah that's a recipe to future financial disaster.

What's really sad is the current climate for older, established artists is simply tour, tour, tour and flog their decade's old hits to an aging (and dwindling) audience of their peers. There's really no incentive to make new music (outside the artistic desire to create new music) unless you want to sell it to big businesses basically as backing music for a movie or commercial so it'll get heard. Record companies have fallen to simply using TV shows like American Idol to quickly sign, sell and throw away disposable cookie cutter pop singers. More than ever, "talent" is a commodity and the standards are in the gutter these days. There's little financial or artistic incentive for kids to go out there and start a new band now - you have to not only be a musician, but you need to have a strong sense of modern self promotion and business sense. You'll do better going through law school or getting into politics if you're that savy.

The odds of younger, newer artists making any headway is akin to winning the lottery now. Most that have achieved some level of success are doing it the old fashioned way through the few big record companies left that still have some money to spend signing a new act they feel they can exploit. For every Arcade Fire or Muse that have "made it" the past 10 years there's thousands of bands that are playing bars on weekends and posting their music for free on webpages that will never get beyond a few hundred dedicated listeners. The current climate in rock music is that bleak.

[Hokahey]

Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers...

You must mean when the consumers suddenly discovered a way to steal as much of the business's product as they want.

The record industry wasn't diminished because people didn't want their product, or because people became able to self-release albums. Self-released albums aren't making much money in the grand scheme of things - mostly they're acting as advertisements for live performances. The industry was diminished because people elected to steal rather than go the route of being consumers, in the capitalist sense of the word.

Hooray for anti-capitalist crime!

1. I'd argue that file sharing would have never caught on as much as it did had compact discs not been grossly overpriced to begin with.

2. Most artists couldn't care less that the RIAA is dying.

No one is stepping in to help because as a producer no one cares about their distribution methods exactly because their model and delivery of product was flawed and unsustainable.

That's what happens, or should unless the government steps in to bail them out, when you have an entity that has become antiquated due to it's own poor business paractices. No one's rallying around to save them.

A lot of things are over-priced. Hell, most things, I'd say. Should I steal those things, too? If CDs had been five dollars when napster came around, I'm pretty sure people would have pirated them anyways, eventually. I know I would have. Maybe it wouldn't have happened as fast, but my preferred price is zero on all goods, and that seems to hold true for most people.

That most artists don't care that the RIAA is hurting doesn't matter; most artists could never get a record deal in the first place.

Fact is, the internet allowed artists to distribute their own work, which they are. Major artists that could be making a label money.

So, I agree with you. Fuck capitalist fat cats. Let's steal. Everything. Then, when they're all bled dry, we can actually live in a sustainable world.

[Jasper]

Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers...

You must mean when the consumers suddenly discovered a way to steal as much of the business's product as they want.

The record industry wasn't diminished because people didn't want their product, or because people became able to self-release albums. Self-released albums aren't making much money in the grand scheme of things - mostly they're acting as advertisements for live performances. The industry was diminished because people elected to steal rather than go the route of being consumers, in the capitalist sense of the word.

Hooray for anti-capitalist crime!

1. I'd argue that file sharing would have never caught on as much as it did had compact discs not been grossly overpriced to begin with.

2. Most artists couldn't care less that the RIAA is dying.

No one is stepping in to help because as a producer no one cares about their distribution methods exactly because their model and delivery of product was flawed and unsustainable.

That's what happens, or should unless the government steps in to bail them out, when you have an entity that has become antiquated due to it's own poor business paractices. No one's rallying around to save them.

A lot of things are over-priced. Hell, most things, I'd say. Should I steal those things, too? If CDs had been five dollars when napster came around, I'm pretty sure people would have pirated them anyways, eventually. I know I would have. Maybe it wouldn't have happened as fast, but my preferred price is zero on all goods, and that seems to hold true for most people.

That most artists don't care that the RIAA is hurting doesn't matter; most artists could never get a record deal in the first place.

Very few major artists release their music independently, a drop in the ocean, and even less do it solely through the internet. It's not like everyone's not stealing self-released stuff and things from indie labels anyway. I think indie music fans are some of the most prolific music thieves of all, bless their little hearts.

So, I agree with you. Fuck capitalist fat cats. Let's steal. Everything. Then, when they're all bled dry, we can actually live in a sustainable world.

This was a joke, but I actually think that it's less insane than what the Atlas Shrugged brain trust would like, but that is something that we will never, ever agree on, so let's not waste time doing this --> just because we have vastly different interests and life experiences.

[CaseyContrarian]

As much as I'd love to relitigate the failed promise of the digital revolution and the paucity of vision of the major copyright aggregators, I gave at the office. Let's talk about Dave's tattoos or Perry's cape!