JA's current Capitol deal (and promotion)

[CaseyContrarian]

This is something I've been pondering for awhile, but the recent issue of Entertainment Weekly prompted me to post. Yes, I'm copping to reading EW (but it's my wife's subscription, ha). The reason I bring it up is because it's their Fall Music Preview, and EW is exactly the kind of old media rag that a clueless legacy label would push hard to get placement in. And, since JA no longer has a demographic base besides us, they'd make sense for a generic blurb that any of us who can string two sentences together (speaking of, where is Paints?) could write asleep, underwater and hogtied. And yet, no JA. Even Lenny Kravitz's latest aural abortion made the grade. Now, this tells me one of two things:

1. Capitol doesn't give a shit
2. Capitol is extracting revenue from other parts of the brand.

Which brings me to the structure of the band's current deal. My guess is that it's a "360 degree" deal (or "enhanced revenue," as industry douchebags call it). This is the only way that Capitol could EVER justify the type of advance that JA wanted (and likely got). The label rightly knows that sales will be soft, but it can encourage brand licensing and take a cut. Hence the LG tie-in. I guarantee we'll see more of these "synergies" until the band recoups, which they never will (on this record, anyway -- the Warner's albums might have, but then again there's the money spent on Gift). Meanwhile, PerryEtty get to live the rock lifestyle they're accustomed to.

360 deals aren't inherently evil, btw -- in some instances it can increase a label's fiduciary duty to an act, because there is more incentive to promote and cross-collateralize. Too often, though, its another form of indentured servitude: transfer your copyrights for 35 years, take this pittance, and we'll drain every drop of blood we can. Oh, and by the way, you won't make any royalties, because you didn't sell enough and we spent this many dollars promoting you (never mind that we now get a cut of merch and tour grosses).

Anyway, I wanted to bring it up. Because this place allows intelligent discussion.

[creep]

i'm not sure capital put much money at all behind this record. i'm pretty sure it was said that the record was self financed. i'm not sure how those radio station festivals work but i'm sure capital gave them money for those shows. both videos were small budget videos that maybe were self financed too? i have absolutely no knowledge of the record industry so obviously i have no idea what i am talking about.

[CaseyContrarian]

I don't think they spent much on the recording or videos, but I can't imagine that PF didn't negotiate an advance. Maybe they go cheap on the other stuff. My real point is that the hidden hand with the LG and corporate stuff might be Capitol, because in a 360 deal, they'd get a cut. Now, I know the labels hate Google, so I wonder about that event. Then again, money is money. Although I believe JA or PF management is capable of securing these deals, I also know that the band is pretty lazy and probably like things to be done for them. If Capitol wants to exploit the band for the next two years, they're apparently cool with that (as long as they get cash up front).

Label or management, either way, it's not the band we remember. Not by a long shot.

Maybe after they break up again, Dave will talk to Sonny about this stuff and he can parcel it out in board posts over the next decade.

[Pandemonium]

I would guess the Capitol deal is a single album limited agreement, something that works best for both parties at this point in the band's career. On the band's side, if they decide Capitol did a shitty job promoting them or they just had too many problems in one way or another, they'll be free to shop for another label if they manage to release another studio album after TGEA. On the label's side, they lessen their risk if the album flops or if the band implodes again mid-tour. The Cult has been doing this for their last 3 albums with limited success.

How the actual details of the agreement are structured is anyone's guess. I do think the band is financing as much of the album's recording as they can out of pocket (vs Capitol ponying up the money) via all the corporate promotional shows and festival gigs they've done the past year.

BTW, wasn't one of the main reasons for the '97 reunion was because Jane's still owed Warner Bros one more album plus a promotional tour and they managed to get away with the couple month tour, a few new songs and a bunch of rare tracks via Kettle Whistle?

[JOEinPHX]

So far the only evidence i have seen that they even have a record coming out is on their own videos, done by Todd Newman.

The album will be here in 5 weeks and i have yet to hear a peep about it anywhere.

i wish i could blame Capital, but Jane's took 10 years to make a followup album to Strays and still turned it in late. They will get what they deserve, although Perry will turn around and blame "illegal downloading" and "kids' lack of attention span" like the old man he is. Meanwhile Tool will drop their new album to 3 million in sales and radio will be all over their next 9 minute song like white on rice.

[Hokahey]

BTW, wasn't one of the main reasons for the '97 reunion was because Jane's still owed Warner Bros one more album plus a promotional tour and they managed to get away with the couple month tour, a few new songs and a bunch of rare tracks via Kettle Whistle?

This would be news to me. In fact, Kettle Whistle didn't satisfy the contract. "Rev" did.

Relapse basically happened because Pete got sick and Hardcharger. They decided to go ahead and put P4P on the backburner and do Jane's for awhile.

[JOEinPHX]

BTW, wasn't one of the main reasons for the '97 reunion was because Jane's still owed Warner Bros one more album plus a promotional tour and they managed to get away with the couple month tour, a few new songs and a bunch of rare tracks via Kettle Whistle?

This would be news to me. In fact, Kettle Whistle didn't satisfy the contract. "Rev" did.

Relapse basically happened because Pete got sick and Hardcharger. They decided to go ahead and put P4P on the backburner and do Jane's for awhile.

it's always been weird to me that Jane's Addiction was always just an afterthought.

Perry: Hey let's take Porno For Pyros out on the road with Dave and Flea!
Pete: I'm sick. i can't.
Perry: Ok, we'll just call it Jane's Addiction then!

[CaseyContrarian]

BTW, wasn't one of the main reasons for the '97 reunion was because Jane's still owed Warner Bros one more album plus a promotional tour and they managed to get away with the couple month tour, a few new songs and a bunch of rare tracks via Kettle Whistle?

This would be news to me. In fact, Kettle Whistle didn't satisfy the contract. "Rev" did.

Relapse basically happened because Pete got sick and Hardcharger. They decided to go ahead and put P4P on the backburner and do Jane's for awhile.

it's always been weird to me that Jane's Addiction was always just an afterthought.

Perry: Hey let's take Porno For Pyros out on the road with Dave and Flea!
Pete: I'm sick. i can't.
Perry: Ok, we'll just call it Jane's Addiction then!

Beyond the money, it still is.

[Pandemonium]

So far the only evidence i have seen that they even have a record coming out is on their own videos, done by Todd Newman.

The album will be here in 5 weeks and i have yet to hear a peep about it anywhere.

i wish i could blame Capital, but Jane's took 10 years to make a followup album to Strays and still turned it in late. They will get what they deserve, although Perry will turn around and blame "illegal downloading" and "kids' lack of attention span" like the old man he is. Meanwhile Tool will drop their new album to 3 million in sales and radio will be all over their next 9 minute song like white on rice.

What was lead time on the finished Strays full album leak? I forget but wasn't it less than a month?

And seriously, you wanna hear fucked up, the upcoming new Van Halen album which is due out by the end of November with David Lee Roth (their first together since literally 1984) is in jeopardy of not being released supposedly either due to Eddie's obsessive fiddling with remixing and more recording after over a year's worth of work or because Roth and Eddie are trying to renegotiate the royalty split via their respective lawyers using the album as a bargaining chip depending on who you believe. Whatever the case, no one at Warner Bros/Live Nation has heard the finished record yet and it's supposed to be in production by the end of next month.

[CaseyContrarian]

That's nuts. I was wondering about what was going on with the VH record. Eddie is insane, and Dave is Dave. I suppose it wouldn't come off without a hitch.

[JOEinPHX]

That's nuts. I was wondering about what was going on with the VH record. Eddie is insane, and Dave is Dave. I suppose it wouldn't come off without a hitch.

Roth: I want 50% for the lyrics, and another 25% for songwriting
Eddie: sure, i'll just wear a shirt that says "12.5%" onstage.

[Pandemonium]

That's nuts. I was wondering about what was going on with the VH record. Eddie is insane, and Dave is Dave. I suppose it wouldn't come off without a hitch.

Roth: I want 50% for the lyrics, and another 25% for songwriting
Eddie: sure, i'll just wear a shirt that says "12.5%" onstage.

It's really the other way around and has been since Sammy Hagar joined the band back in '85.

When they formed Van Halen and later landed their record deal, they agreed on a 4 x 25% songwriting and profit split. But by about the 3rd or 4th album, Eddie started getting resentful that bass player Michael Anthony was adding almost nothing from a creative standpoint and by the time he built his own studio on the grounds of his home and recorded the "1984" album, he was resentful of Roth as well. So when Roth left and Hagar joined and they got new management, Eddie saw it as an opportunity to restructure the royalty deal so that Anthony was down to something like 18% and eventually was getting less of a cut than the manager. Hagar saw the writing on the wall and stuck with his own publishing deal. Once Hagar was out, Anthony and 3rd short-lived singer Gary Cherone were splitting something like 20% between the two of them while Eddie and his brother split 40% each.

When they did the Sammy Hagar reunion tour in '04, Eddie didn't even want Anthony on the tour but "let" him play on the condition he reneged any claim to future royalties regarding *anything* to do with Van Halen and play as a strictly salaried employee (probably like Chris Chaney is in Janes). Hagar was also a salaried employee but obviously he got a much more respectable cut of the tour profits. Eddie consolidated his family brand by booting Anthony and bringing in his teenage son on bass when they did the tour with Roth in '07. Roth was also likely getting a straight cut off the '07/'08 reunion tour but now that there's a new record and publishing to be had, all bets are off even though they probably agreed on something a couple years ago.

To be fair, without Eddie, there is no Van Halen and he has written almost all the music and of course played guitar as a living icon in the band since day one. But it's also easy to see the value of the contributions Roth, Hagar (if you like his tenure in the band, I don't) and even Michael Anthony have been crucial to the band's sound and success. The problem has been, Eddie became a weird, twisted and bitter megalomaniac the last 20 years or so to the point he makes Axl Rose look like the model of stability.

[blackula]

That's nuts. I was wondering about what was going on with the VH record. Eddie is insane, and Dave is Dave. I suppose it wouldn't come off without a hitch.

Roth: I want 50% for the lyrics, and another 25% for songwriting
Eddie: sure, i'll just wear a shirt that says "12.5%" onstage.

haha. I've always despised van halen. even hot for teacher, a song that rocks, is ruined by roth's cheese. anyway, i just read hagar's book for the soap opera aspect of it, these dudes are for sure more dramatic than jane's. it actually makes me more sad for jane's that their antics for the last 15 years have them in the same discussion as van halen.

[CaseyContrarian]

Yep. That's the history I'm familiar with. I used to loathe Michael Anthony, but anyone who says he didn't contribute some really significant bass to Fair Warning (the best VH record, and the only one I really can stand to listen to anymore) is nuts.

Eddie would have been a monster talent on any instrument in any era. He's just one of those guys. It's pretty unfortunate where he ended up though. But talent is like that.

[JOEinPHX]

is it a case of Michael Anthony not contributing, or a case of Eddie telling him what he was contributing wasn't good enough so he just did it himself?

i could see throwing my hands up in the air and taking 10% with zero work if the guitar player wouldn't let me actually record anything anyway

[Pandemonium]

is it a case of Michael Anthony not contributing, or a case of Eddie telling him what he was contributing wasn't good enough so he just did it himself?

i could see throwing my hands up in the air and taking 10% with zero work if the guitar player wouldn't let me actually record anything anyway

That sums it up. Michael Anthony is just really not a creative take-charge kinda guy in the studio and pretty much as time went on more or less became content to play what Eddie wanted him to play. I'm sure it was a case of Eddie just squeezing Anthony's role in the band down as the years went by as well. By the time they brought in Gary Cherone for the terrible "3" album after Hagar left, Eddie was playing much of the bass parts in the studio himself leaving Anthony to just sing backup vox and play bass live. That said, there's no question Anthony played a huge part in the bands' classic sound especially live:



Around 1980, before they recorded the Fair Warning album, Eddie wanted to boot Anthony and replace him with Billy Sheehan, a "shredder bassist" who played for a minor metal band Talas (and later, pop metal band Mr Big) who opened for Van Halen on some dates on the 1980 tour. Amusingly, Sheehan along with guitar shredder Steve Vai eventually joined Roth's solo band for the first two albums after Roth left Van Halen.

[Essence_Smith]

Ahhhh the beauty of JA...the fact that even people who liked Van Halen could like them too...

360 deals are pretty much the standard these days...3 yrs ago I was in a band that had a bunch of majors at every show and that's all they were offering...hence why I'm back in corporate america...the only way to make money is to at least go platinum...otherwise you're playing LG shows...

[MYXYLPLYX]

360 deals are pretty much the standard these days...3 yrs ago I was in a band that had a bunch of majors at every show and that's all they were offering...hence why I'm back in corporate america...the only way to make money is to at least go platinum...otherwise you're playing LG shows...

Record labels are dinosaurs in the tar pit...thrashing about and trying to grab on to anything they can.

Let them die.

[JOEinPHX]

360 deals are pretty much the standard these days...3 yrs ago I was in a band that had a bunch of majors at every show and that's all they were offering...hence why I'm back in corporate america...the only way to make money is to at least go platinum...otherwise you're playing LG shows...

Record labels are dinosaurs in the tar pit...thrashing about and trying to grab on to anything they can.

Let them die.

buuuut.... then how will the poor 60 year old balding millionaire executives afford their cocaine habits?

Kids today... they all just have their greedy little hands out, demanding "fair compensation" for their work and "ownership of the works they create from scratch".

Disgusting really.

That isn't capitalism.

[kv]

360 deals are pretty much the standard these days...3 yrs ago I was in a band that had a bunch of majors at every show and that's all they were offering...hence why I'm back in corporate america...the only way to make money is to at least go platinum...otherwise you're playing LG shows...

Record labels are dinosaurs in the tar pit...thrashing about and trying to grab on to anything they can.

Let them die.

here here

[CaseyContrarian]

360 deals are pretty much the standard these days...3 yrs ago I was in a band that had a bunch of majors at every show and that's all they were offering...hence why I'm back in corporate america...the only way to make money is to at least go platinum...otherwise you're playing LG shows...

Record labels are dinosaurs in the tar pit...thrashing about and trying to grab on to anything they can.

Let them die.

buuuut.... then how will the poor 60 year old balding millionaire executives afford their cocaine habits?

Kids today... they all just have their greedy little hands out, demanding "fair compensation" for their work and "ownership of the works they create from scratch".

Disgusting really.

That isn't capitalism.

I agree with ES that the only deals the majors offer are 360s at this point. Without blowing my cover (which isn't much of one anyway), I work in the business, on the music-tech-policy side, and it really just pisses me off that artists -- as usual -- bear the brunt of the inflexible, backwards, greedy, protectionist actions of the major labels and their legal/lobby front here in DC. (Can you tell which side I'm on?)

Anyway, Jane's are more than content to cash out, now honey -- they've already sullied their legacy so much that a few more dings will hardly matter. I just hate that they pretend it has anything to do with art or the creative spark. Dave's the worst, because a) he's my main influence (after Jimmy Page); discovered the XXX album as a 16 year-old guitarist, and b) he seems so reasonable that I WANT to believe him. Really, it's a two-pronged con from him and Perry. Stephen, well, he's a great drummer.

[Hokahey]

That isn't capitalism.

As always, the free market won again with the advent of the internet and being able to self-release albums. Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers it will die eventually.

If Jane's was still teamed with Trent, they could have used his model that much more easily.

Imagine the level of respect they'd be getting. It would be the ultimate "Jane's Addiction" move. Jane's with Eric thumbing their noses to the majors and self releasing their Trent Reznor produced album with whatever artwork they chose. Their playing of all of these festivals would have been more justifiable.

Hell, have Trent produce a video too.

[Jasper]

Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers...

You must mean when the consumers suddenly discovered a way to steal as much of the business's product as they want.

The record industry wasn't diminished because people didn't want their product, or because people became able to self-release albums. Self-released albums aren't making much money in the grand scheme of things - mostly they're acting as advertisements for live performances. The industry was diminished because people elected to steal rather than go the route of being consumers, in the capitalist sense of the word.

Hooray for anti-capitalist crime!

[Hokahey]

Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers...

You must mean when the consumers suddenly discovered a way to steal as much of the business's product as they want.

The record industry wasn't diminished because people didn't want their product, or because people became able to self-release albums. Self-released albums aren't making much money in the grand scheme of things - mostly they're acting as advertisements for live performances. The industry was diminished because people elected to steal rather than go the route of being consumers, in the capitalist sense of the word.

Hooray for anti-capitalist crime!

1. I'd argue that file sharing would have never caught on as much as it did had compact discs not been grossly overpriced to begin with.

2. Most artists couldn't care less that the RIAA is dying.

No one is stepping in to help because as a producer no one cares about their distribution methods exactly because their model and delivery of product was flawed and unsustainable.

That's what happens, or should unless the government steps in to bail them out, when you have an entity that has become antiquated due to it's own poor business paractices. No one's rallying around to save them.

[Tyler Durden]

That isn't capitalism.

As always, the free market won again with the advent of the internet and being able to self-release albums. Where a business stops meeting the demands of it's consumers it will die eventually.

If Jane's was still teamed with Trent, they could have used his model that much more easily.

Imagine the level of respect they'd be getting. It would be the ultimate "Jane's Addiction" move. Jane's with Eric thumbing their noses to the majors and self releasing their Trent Reznor produced album with whatever artwork they chose. Their playing of all of these festivals would have been more justifiable.

Hell, have Trent produce a video too.

Amen brother.

As we former xiolians have previously discussed, back in '08/'09, the band (w/Eric) was really onto something. They looked like they were going to remove the stain on their legacy that was Strays and rebuild the band from the ground up. They had a renewed image and vibe that temporarily restored their credibility. Then they fucked it up. Now the band seems to back to where they were in '03. I can't want for the follow-up to "(ONe)".