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Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:25 pm
by Hype
Six7Six7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:22 pm
Hype wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:40 pm
, for me, is pretty clear: the songwriting was largely EA and PF.
But we've known for that 35 years.
I know. All I wanted to say was that this video really crystallizes that thought. For some reason some of you thought I was just ragging on Dave.
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:21 pm
by Stickyfingers
dannyboy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:14 am
I disagree with the views that diminish Dave’s contribution.
Yeah, he wasn’t there a the start while they wrote some songs and it’s true he didn’t change the old guitar parts too much but I don’t think he needed to. He wasn’t being egotistical by completely changing stuff (which Eric or Perry might have written) for the sake of it but instead did what worked for the song.
I remember him once saying that perry wrote the intro to ocean size and he didn’t feel it could be improved upon so played it exactly as he’d been shown.
I’m pretty sure he had significant input into Stop! Then She Did..., Three Days and a few others. Not to be sniffed at.
Anyway, if anyone is hoarding an old video of them writing and rehearsing, you can clear this up once and for all!
I think it's fair to say DN and SP are jane's addiction signature and Janes are not janes without them two.
But it's unfair for Dave and Steve after two years later go into a studio to record NS and ask equal 25% each of songwriting.
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:54 am
by JOEinPHX
Stickyfingers wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:21 pm
dannyboy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:14 am
I disagree with the views that diminish Dave’s contribution.
Yeah, he wasn’t there a the start while they wrote some songs and it’s true he didn’t change the old guitar parts too much but I don’t think he needed to. He wasn’t being egotistical by completely changing stuff (which Eric or Perry might have written) for the sake of it but instead did what worked for the song.
I remember him once saying that perry wrote the intro to ocean size and he didn’t feel it could be improved upon so played it exactly as he’d been shown.
I’m pretty sure he had significant input into Stop! Then She Did..., Three Days and a few others. Not to be sniffed at.
Anyway, if anyone is hoarding an old video of them writing and rehearsing, you can clear this up once and for all!
I think it's fair to say DN and SP are jane's addiction signature and Janes are not janes without them two.
But it's unfair for Dave and Steve after two years later go into a studio to record NS and ask equal 25% each of songwriting.
Pretty sure what Dave and Stephen played were not what their predecessors played.
You write a new part, you get writing credit.
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:13 pm
by Stickyfingers
Six7Six7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:54 am
Pretty sure what Dave and Stephen played were not what their predecessors played.
You write a new part, you get writing credit.
12.5% is pretty fair for their contribution to the songs.
Dave Jerden is a great producer and I'm sure could have done a great album even with those two previous guys.
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:07 pm
by someguy
I think I better understand the rationale behind the percentage splits now. Perry was probably thinking linearly in term of writing, and any ideas Dave and Perk came up with were bound to what was already in place. So with a song like Ain't No Right that had been written before those two joined, the guitar part Dave plays over it doesn't constitute a chorus since technically its an embellishment. Soundgarden works the same way- Kim doesn't necessarily agree with this approach but apparently its pretty common.
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:47 am
by Larry B.
Six7Six7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:54 am
You write a new part, you get writing credit.
I don’t think it’s as simple as that. When you arrive into a band, you usually play what was there before but with your own ‘colours’, so to speak. That’s not really a new part. If there’s space for a solo and you don’t copy the previous person’s solo, that’s all you... but still isn’t a new part.
I’d bet that songs like Classic Girl and Then She Did... were not written by Perry with all the details and nuances in the guitar as Dave plays them. That’s pretty obvious, as Perry can’t play the guitar nowhere as proficiently as Dave. But Dave didn’t compose a new part, he did what all musicians do: play a part like you would play that part.
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:56 am
by dannyboy
Hype wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:25 pm
Six7Six7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:22 pm
Hype wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:40 pm
, for me, is pretty clear: the songwriting was largely EA and PF.
But we've known for that 35 years.
I know. All I wanted to say was that this video really crystallizes that thought. For some reason some of you thought I was just ragging on Dave.
Ok that’s my bad! I’ve had a bee in my bonnet about it for a while but never posted; this time, when I saw my opening, I didn’t hesitate!
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:24 am
by Matz
Larry B. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:47 am
Six7Six7 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:54 am
You write a new part, you get writing credit.
I’d bet that songs like Classic Girl and Then She Did... were not written by Perry with all the details and nuances in the guitar as Dave plays them. That’s pretty obvious, as Perry can’t play the guitar nowhere as proficiently as Dave. But Dave didn’t compose a new part, he did what all musicians do: play a part like you would play that part.
Right, same with a song like My friends, where Flea wrote the chords and the melody and possibly the words too and Dave "just" came in and decorated the christmas tree. "yeah, yeah, Dave's just a reactor blablabla".....not true! The Spread/TNO songs are very well written, he's a strong songwriter. Or I should probably say was, cause those days are probably over by now.
On another note: I thought Dave and Perry wrote Classic girl together. Off to library to study up
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:49 am
by dannyboy
I’ve always wanted to hearFlea’s original composition of My Friends. I thought Anthony had completely rewritten the lyrics but hard to know without hearing the original
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:42 pm
by cabangbangq
Pandemonium wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:07 pm
Mescal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:36 am
Like?
Isn’t the complete 1990 Hollywood Palladium pro-shot show floating around a few uber-collectors?
If so, I'd love to get a link to that!
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:42 am
by Bandit72
cabangbangq wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:42 pm
Pandemonium wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:07 pm
Mescal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:36 am
Like?
Isn’t the complete 1990 Hollywood Palladium pro-shot show floating around a few uber-collectors?
If so, I'd love to get a link to that!
I thought Warner bros had it but were never going to release it??
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:21 am
by Mescal
They released it 10 times already
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:26 am
by Bandit72
There is at least a partial proshot video recording of this show as it is the source of the live music video for Ain't No Right, which was included in the movie Gift and as well as on the DVD in A Cabinet of Curiosities. Unfortunately this is the only footage of this show that has been relesed.
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:32 pm
by Noonesshocking
Hype wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:40 pm
Noonesshocking wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:41 pm
Can’t agree with the short-changing of Dave ITT. Absolutely the foundations of the songs are in place.
[...]
So while I def would consider Perry and Eric the songwriting team, Dave definitely made the songs way sharper
So we all agree then. I never said Dave isn’t necessary or didn’t improve the songs. I said it’s amazing to hear these songs before his input and the takeaway, for me, is pretty clear: the songwriting was largely EA and PF. That doesn’t short-change the other two in the slightest. Perk and Dave are among the best in the biz. But it does explain Strays, TGEA, etc.
Yeah sorry wasn’t responding to you specifically or calling you out. I just saw a bunch of posts that I wanted to offer my two cents on.
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:00 pm
by Charles
Wow...been looking for this vid for 23 years. And it's been up for 2 years already LOL Thank you Dannyboy for the heads up!
So nice and refreshing to see a gem of 1.0 like this finally surface. Cheers
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:50 pm
by intertwoven
Charles wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:00 pm
So nice and refreshing to see a gem of 1.0 like this finally surface. Cheers
I wouldn't call it Jane's 1.0... It's more like Jane's Beta 0.4. lol
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:43 pm
by drifter
just noticed the link to this Louis elovitz has a ton of cool ole videos of the punk scene back in the day. Lots barely viewed
Re: Fuck! A really, really old janes video - pre Dave and Steve
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:06 pm
by dannyboy
Yeah! I watched a couple of Two Free Stooges videos. I’d heard the name a lot but never had any idea what they sounded like. Think Martyn is on bass
There’s also some cool stuff with froosh and kiedis backstage at a HATE show