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Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:00 am
by REA
In my opinion which doesnt mean much , when it really comes down to it, everyone is racist white, black, asian, rich , middle class, poor , prisons ,
Ever walked around a Middle Eastern county as a white guy?
Even animals gravitate to their own kind .
Black dogs get shunned by lighter colored dogs .Pay attention to an large aquarium , damn fish are racist
Its all about how much you let someone being different bother you
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:47 am
by Essence_Smith
Around 20 years ago I joined the Jane's Addiction message boards and I naively thought that because Perry's opinions and attitudes as we knew them were kinda progressive that this would be reflected in the attitudes and opinions of the band's fanbase...I was a little bit off
I was pretty careful initially even mentioning on xiola, etc that I was black because I didn't know what kind of door I'd be opening as the internet was kind of a new thing back then. But I felt like I needed to because sometimes things were said that were disappointing, etc. So I had designs on trying to bring some sorta balance or at least have some conversation on things not specifically regarding race but the conversations weren't balanced & I thought I could add something to em...I don't know what I accomplished but I learned quite a bit in my years and honestly I learned that I dislike the general attitudes about race held by white AND black people equally...everyone has a LOT to learn...the fact that anyone's even confused about why folks shouldn't be using that word pretty much says it all.
I stepped away from these boards years ago in part because the overall attitude never really changed...without getting too deep someone said something that didn't sit well and it sat there with folks generally oblivious to the BS so I stepped away & it is what it is
To whomever asked FUCK QUENTIN TARANTINO...what he does is clearly gratuitous and I haven't watched his films in years...his explanation and justification for using that word years ago nearly set me off...I actually find it uncomfortable to watch him in interviews...people should be boycotting his shit imo but hey the storytelling...
At the end of the day...with respect to everyone's ART...no one really NEEDS to say that word...NO ONE...do I think it's cool they're pulling certain things because of the word? No but honestly part of me feels that most of the reason there's even a debate is because white people want to be able to say it...and that is some silly shit...and so is black people using it...I never had an issue with Perry using that word as the context was clear to me...I have no issue with him NOT using it now & whether these omissions are done to avoid controversy or to be sensitive to changing times etc I don't know but I STILL understand the song Whores without it same as I understand Huck Finn without it
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:17 pm
by kv
who would have thought listening to whores in the 80's (the fucking 80's! ? coming up on almost 40 fucking years) how the fuck is this still a topic? how after 4 decades...."is the n word ok?"
clearly no...not for anyone..
common sense isn't....
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:49 pm
by guysmiley
It is interesting to ask, is changing Huck Finn ok to alter. On one hand, is it ok the wash history to fit modern norms? I don't think it will erase that word in society. Or is it better to leave the book as is to see were we came from? I think people can handle the truth of history with guidance and context. But I'm not outraged by people trying to be better or nicer.
My kids really like flags right now and maps. They've been asking why their parents countries had a war with each other. Literally my grandfather was working on the Manhattan project and my wife's grandfather was killing Americans in the south Pacific. It's a hard truth that I'm trying to explain piece by piece as they get older. But I'm not going to hide the ugly parts, just try to explain people can be pretty mean to each other. Maybe someday we can get past the uncomfortable stuff.
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:57 pm
by SR
Essence_Smith wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:47 am
Around 20 years ago I joined the Jane's Addiction message boards and I naively thought that because Perry's opinions and attitudes as we knew them were kinda progressive that this would be reflected in the attitudes and opinions of the band's fanbase...I was a little bit off
I was pretty careful initially even mentioning on xiola, etc that I was black because I didn't know what kind of door I'd be opening as the internet was kind of a new thing back then. But I felt like I needed to because sometimes things were said that were disappointing, etc. So I had designs on trying to bring some sorta balance or at least have some conversation on things not specifically regarding race but the conversations weren't balanced & I thought I could add something to em...I don't know what I accomplished but I learned quite a bit in my years and honestly I learned that I dislike the general attitudes about race held by white AND black people equally...everyone has a LOT to learn...the fact that anyone's even confused about why folks shouldn't be using that word pretty much says it all.
I stepped away from these boards years ago in part because the overall attitude never really changed...without getting too deep someone said something that didn't sit well and it sat there with folks generally oblivious to the BS so I stepped away & it is what it is
To whomever asked FUCK QUENTIN TARANTINO...what he does is clearly gratuitous and I haven't watched his films in years...his explanation and justification for using that word years ago nearly set me off...I actually find it uncomfortable to watch him in interviews...people should be boycotting his shit imo but hey the storytelling...
At the end of the day...with respect to everyone's ART...no one really NEEDS to say that word...NO ONE...do I think it's cool they're pulling certain things because of the word? No but honestly part of me feels that most of the reason there's even a debate is because white people want to be able to say it...and that is some silly shit...and so is black people using it...I never had an issue with Perry using that word as the context was clear to me...I have no issue with him NOT using it now & whether these omissions are done to avoid controversy or to be sensitive to changing times etc I don't know but I STILL understand the song Whores without it same as I understand Huck Finn without it
Love ES/C. Always will. Had a conversation with him about the inevitable conversation a responsible black man has with his son. I still cried. That word is owned, locked up and free to only black people. Refer to Tubro's post. Fuck everyone else.
So very little to give
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:58 pm
by thoreau
Essence_Smith wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:47 am
Around 20 years ago I joined the Jane's Addiction message boards and I naively thought that because Perry's opinions and attitudes as we knew them were kinda progressive that this would be reflected in the attitudes and opinions of the band's fanbase...I was a little bit off
I was pretty careful initially even mentioning on xiola, etc that I was black because I didn't know what kind of door I'd be opening as the internet was kind of a new thing back then. But I felt like I needed to because sometimes things were said that were disappointing, etc. So I had designs on trying to bring some sorta balance or at least have some conversation on things not specifically regarding race but the conversations weren't balanced & I thought I could add something to em...I don't know what I accomplished but I learned quite a bit in my years and honestly I learned that I dislike the general attitudes about race held by white AND black people equally...everyone has a LOT to learn...the fact that anyone's even confused about why folks shouldn't be using that word pretty much says it all.
I stepped away from these boards years ago in part because the overall attitude never really changed...without getting too deep someone said something that didn't sit well and it sat there with folks generally oblivious to the BS so I stepped away & it is what it is
To whomever asked FUCK QUENTIN TARANTINO...what he does is clearly gratuitous and I haven't watched his films in years...his explanation and justification for using that word years ago nearly set me off...I actually find it uncomfortable to watch him in interviews...people should be boycotting his shit imo but hey the storytelling...
At the end of the day...with respect to everyone's ART...no one really NEEDS to say that word...NO ONE...do I think it's cool they're pulling certain things because of the word? No but honestly part of me feels that most of the reason there's even a debate is because white people want to be able to say it...and that is some silly shit...and so is black people using it...I never had an issue with Perry using that word as the context was clear to me...I have no issue with him NOT using it now & whether these omissions are done to avoid controversy or to be sensitive to changing times etc I don't know but I STILL understand the song Whores without it same as I understand Huck Finn without it
Great insightful post, as always, ES.
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:00 pm
by SR
I will disagree with ES. In my reading here, the vast majority are on the right side of history
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:50 pm
by kv
I swear Hoka you have PTSD over these forums...
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:52 am
by Hokahey
kv wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:50 pm
I swear Hoka you have PTSD over these forums...
Don’t drink and post.
Still, there was a valid point in there somewhere. It went far beyond some occasional dickish behavior. It’s not about PTSD, but it is about acknowledging some really fucking ugly behavior. Since we’ve been on the topic. And yes you were part of it sometimes.
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:43 am
by dannyboy
Essence_Smith wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:47 am
Around 20 years ago I joined the Jane's Addiction message boards and I naively thought that because Perry's opinions and attitudes as we knew them were kinda progressive that this would be reflected in the attitudes and opinions of the band's fanbase...I was a little bit off
I was pretty careful initially even mentioning on xiola, etc that I was black because I didn't know what kind of door I'd be opening as the internet was kind of a new thing back then. But I felt like I needed to because sometimes things were said that were disappointing, etc. So I had designs on trying to bring some sorta balance or at least have some conversation on things not specifically regarding race but the conversations weren't balanced & I thought I could add something to em...I don't know what I accomplished but I learned quite a bit in my years and honestly I learned that I dislike the general attitudes about race held by white AND black people equally...everyone has a LOT to learn...the fact that anyone's even confused about why folks shouldn't be using that word pretty much says it all.
I stepped away from these boards years ago in part because the overall attitude never really changed...without getting too deep someone said something that didn't sit well and it sat there with folks generally oblivious to the BS so I stepped away & it is what it is
To whomever asked FUCK QUENTIN TARANTINO...what he does is clearly gratuitous and I haven't watched his films in years...his explanation and justification for using that word years ago nearly set me off...I actually find it uncomfortable to watch him in interviews...people should be boycotting his shit imo but hey the storytelling...
At the end of the day...with respect to everyone's ART...no one really NEEDS to say that word...NO ONE...do I think it's cool they're pulling certain things because of the word? No but honestly part of me feels that most of the reason there's even a debate is because white people want to be able to say it...and that is some silly shit...and so is black people using it...I never had an issue with Perry using that word as the context was clear to me...I have no issue with him NOT using it now & whether these omissions are done to avoid controversy or to be sensitive to changing times etc I don't know but I STILL understand the song Whores without it same as I understand Huck Finn without it
The boards have been poorer for your absence.
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:42 am
by blackcoffee
REA wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:00 am
In my opinion which doesnt mean much , when it really comes down to it, everyone is racist white, black, asian, rich , middle class, poor , prisons ,
Ever walked around a Middle Eastern county as a white guy?
Even animals gravitate to their own kind .
Black dogs get shunned by lighter colored dogs .Pay attention to an large aquarium , damn fish are racist
Its all about how much you let someone being different bother you
If it were that simple. The definition most operate from with respect to racism is that there is a component of power--systemic power, if you will. White/whiteness is the default norm in the US even if whites are no longer the majority, they still have/hold systemic power. A Black person can have racial prejudice, and behave in such a way, but not necessarily hold the systemic power to do the harm white people can be capable of.
I think Chappelle talks about this with respect to how white gay people can experience oppression and bias and hate and any number of other things, but they can still call the police on him.
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:52 am
by nestos
you guys are quite funny
everyone that has the feeling he/she belongs to a community is wrong
is it a village, a skin-color, a religion, a music-trend, a sexual preference, all of them, they are the first step to dislike of others
fuck tem all
Re: “Whores” in 2023
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:18 am
by Tyler Durden
blackcoffee wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:42 am
I think Chappelle talks about this with respect to how white gay people can experience oppression and bias and hate and any number of other things, but they can still call the police on him.
Nah. As a white straight nobody…if I murdered someone, I’d likely get life in prison. If Dave Chappelle murdered someone, he’d likely walk…because he’s Dave Chappelle and is worth millions.
But I will acknowledge that if all things were equal, so to speak and the only defining variable was race…then yes, I’d have the upper hand. But money talks.