Free will is an illusion....?

off-topic conversation unrelated to Jane's Addiction
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Hype
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Re: Free will is an illusion....?

#226 Post by Hype » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:15 am

Wait, don't go! You don't need a PhD to have good ideas about these questions!

I think I basically agree that of course you can reasonably tell someone they're doing something stupid even if there's no free will. Sometimes lettting someone know that they're fucking up can help them not do that anymore, and if you're compelled to let them know, you'll do it, even if it doesn't do any good. No problem. :nod:

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mockbee
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Re: Free will is an illusion....?

#227 Post by mockbee » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:13 am

Yes.

Matz, you made me think. That is good. I think we regulate each other, and that is important. Just because someone has a strong opinion about something doesnt mean they're right. It goes both ways. I think always it goes both ways. Of course, there are times when someone is MORE right, but there is always something to be learned, and everyone can/should be challenged.

I actually agree with you about being very skeptical about neuroscience. ESPECIALLY, when it comes to Psychiatry and manipulating brain chemistry. I have been prescribed anti-depressants in the past, and they did me no good, in fact they were quite harmful. Maybe I had a bad doc, who knows, but I found that cognitive therapy with no drugs, not even natural suppliments, worked best for me. Now I know this is the case for many, many other people and I have a strong opinion that anti-depressants are WAY over prescribed for a multitude of reasons. Just look at Purdue Pharma.......yikes. Similar has to be true for Pfizer and and all the other big ones. Profit is number one, at the expense of people. However, they do a world of good for some people at well. A balance.

I'm just trying to say.. Skepticism is good. Its very good. Just be sure to leave the door slightly open for compromising some opinions. My impression is that you, Matz, either have the door wide open or bolted shut.....I am guilty of that sometimes too, and have to work on it.

:wave:

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SR
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Re: Free will is an illusion....?

#228 Post by SR » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:23 am

For sure, keep it coming Matz...Hype is right; you don't need a PhD to weigh in. In fact, I have been arguing for years that academics live to impress other very smart academics to the exclusion of their serviceable utility in everyday life. I actually think its a massive disservice to culture and societal progress. This anti science and anti intellectual ("elite" bullshit) groundswell of trump supporters fawning over this dotard is pretty clear evidence of this.

But, you're still wrong on Froosh on SA :wave:

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Bandit72
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Re: Free will is an illusion....?

#229 Post by Bandit72 » Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:31 am

I've just been reading this thread again with great interest.

Hype, what do you say to someone who states that godless morality doesn't exist? Is there any good reading on this that doesn't require 30 years of philosophical study?

And what do you make of this?


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Hype
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Re: Free will is an illusion....?

#230 Post by Hype » Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:15 am

Bandit72 wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:31 am
I've just been reading this thread again with great interest.

Hype, what do you say to someone who states that godless morality doesn't exist? Is there any good reading on this that doesn't require 30 years of philosophical study?

And what do you make of this?

I don't think moral values literally exist. But I think it's important that living things value things, themselves, each other, projects... and so on.

Have you watched "The Good Place"? One character, Chidi, is a moral philosopher, who actually references some real good stuff (Scanlon's work among other things). You could watch that, and maybe even read Scanlon's book. This one might be good, too: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/im ... 2AE5967E0A

As for that video... eh... it's okay, I guess. A bit dry... and probably a bit too confident / oversimplified. If it makes you think, then that's good. I think there are real deep problems here that have real practical consequences. But I don't have much in the way of answers... :dunce:

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Bandit72
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Re: Free will is an illusion....?

#231 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:42 am

Thanks! Will look into those this weekend.

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Bandit72
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Re: Free will is an illusion....?

#232 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:46 am

I am writing a paper for hopeful eventual publication that actually deals with the claim that 'everything is explicable' (or 'every thing can be given an explanation for why it is or is not the case'), so this stuff is sort of already in the front of my mind anyway. The connection between causes, explanations, and human action is imho one of the most important things lawyers, judges, politicians, police, psychiatrists, parents, etc., should be thinking about.
Did this ever get published? I'd like to read.

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