The Perfect Steak

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Mescal
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The Perfect Steak

#1 Post by Mescal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:58 am

I know there are some meat lovers on this board.

How do you guys cook the perfect steak? Tender and crusty?

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#2 Post by Hokahey » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:48 am

Depends on indoor or outdoors. I primarily cook mine on a charcoal grill. I hear a lot about the reverse sear, but I'm not in to it.

Season grill. Get the grill really fucking hot. Season steaks liberally. Put fat steaks on grill. Grill 3-4 minutes (on average) per side.

Hot and crusty on outside, cool and tender outside. I like mine rare.

Simple but effective.

Indoors it's a similar approach, but on a cast iron. Cook very hot a few minutes each side and then finish in the oven if needed at 350.

I then typically make a red wine reduction with the juices.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#3 Post by Mescal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:43 am

Yeah, I meant indoors.

Big fan of the reverse sear method, but I'm still missing the real crusty outside....

Been reading about sous vide (vacuum), 24h cooking and blow torch, so I was more thinking in that direction....

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#4 Post by Hype » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:23 am

Hokahey wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:48 am
Depends on indoor or outdoors. I primarily cook mine on a charcoal grill. I hear a lot about the reverse sear, but I'm not in to it.

Season grill. Get the grill really fucking hot. Season steaks liberally. Put fat steaks on grill. Grill 3-4 minutes (on average) per side.

Hot and crusty on outside, cool and tender outside. I like mine rare.

Simple but effective.

Indoors it's a similar approach, but on a cast iron. Cook very hot a few minutes each side and then finish in the oven if needed at 350.

I then typically make a red wine reduction with the juices.
This is more or less the correct technique. My variation is similar but maybe a bit more finicky, and adds slightly more prep:
  1. Purchase very thick cut. At least 1.5" thick, but better if 2"+. Also preferably a well-marbled cut. Save the filet mignon for fine-dining. Get a rib-eye.
  2. Dry-brine (salt) the steak with kosher salt at least 30 minutes prior to cooking. Leave steak out for at least 30 minutes before cooking to come to room temp.
  3. Get cast-iron pan exeedingly hot.
  4. Add other seasonings (WITH NO SALT) if desired, but better not to bother since the high heat will burn the seasoning and the meat won't need it because the salt has penetrated. You can add pepper after cooking.
  5. Add small amount of oil to pan.
  6. Grill on each side for a minute or two to properly sear.
  7. Check internal temp with instant thermometer. All other methods, no matter how confident you are, will always involve errors of a few degrees that matter.
  8. About 10-15 degrees F before desired temp (so somewhere around 110-115F) add butter to pan and spoon over each side while also searing/rendering the fat edge if left on.
  9. If necessary finish in oven, but probably not necessary. 350 is probably good.
Alternatively, reverse sear by doing everything the same except after dry-brine, first cook in oven (or on grill) at 225 with electronic leave-in BBQ thermometer until internal temp is 110-115-ish, then sear as hot as possible.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#5 Post by kv » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:49 pm

You left out letting it sit for 5 minutes after you cooked it

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#6 Post by Hokahey » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:46 pm

kv wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:49 pm
You left out letting it sit for 5 minutes after you cooked it
For sure.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#7 Post by Pandemonium » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:53 pm

There's a place down in Newport Beach, The Butchery that consistently has the best cuts of any place I've ever bought from in Orange County.

http://www.butcherymeats.com/online-store/

When I do New York steaks, I let 'em marinate for about half a day in a large plastic baggy with 50/50 water and low sodium teriyaki sauce and season and grill 'em on the BBQ. The challenge is my wife likes her steaks rare, I mean bloody inside while I like Medium with a nice almost crunchy sear on the outside. I've done Rib Eyes similar to Hype's method but I've never found a really good cast iron pan that works well with my stove. Plus, I hate cleaning pans after dinner.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#8 Post by Hokahey » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:59 pm

Pandemonium wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:53 pm
There's a place down in Newport Beach, The Butchery that consistently has the best cuts of any place I've ever bought from in Orange County.

http://www.butcherymeats.com/online-store/

When I do New York steaks, I let 'em marinate for about half a day in a large plastic baggy with 50/50 water and low sodium teriyaki sauce and season and grill 'em on the BBQ. The challenge is my wife likes her steaks rare, I mean bloody inside while I like Medium with a nice almost crunchy sear on the outside. I've done Rib Eyes similar to Hype's method but I've never found a really good cast iron pan that works well with my stove. Plus, I hate cleaning pans after dinner.
You get them HOT.

And cast irons are a quick clean with hot water and no soap.

At the end of the day, outdoors is always best. And I'm firmly against marinating any steak but a skirt steak or something cheap you'll be cutting up as a component in another dish. It's like putting A1 on it. The steak should stand on it's own except salt+pepper+smoke.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#9 Post by Hokahey » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:02 pm

Mescal wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:43 am
Yeah, I meant indoors.

Big fan of the reverse sear method, but I'm still missing the real crusty outside....

Been reading about sous vide (vacuum), 24h cooking and blow torch, so I was more thinking in that direction....
That's precisely why reverse sear is bullshit. It's trendy, but bullshit.

Sous vide is the new trendy, and still bullshit. Fuck a blow torch for a steak.

HOT surface, flip as often as you want (not flipping is a myth) and get both sides crusty while not overcooking. You should know the doneness by touch or you have no business cooking it.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#10 Post by Hype » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:30 pm

Hokahey wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:46 pm
kv wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:49 pm
You left out letting it sit for 5 minutes after you cooked it
For sure.
Not necessary! It's a myth!

https://amazingribs.com/more-technique- ... g-meat-are
Why I think resting is a mistake
But resting has other impacts, many detrimental.

Cold steak! Another important thing happens during resting: The meat gets cold. There's a reason the serving plates are hot in steakhouses. We like our meat hot. It will cool off fast enough, why give it a running start?

Overcooked meat! Another thing happens when the meat is resting: Carryover. Depending on the thickness and the amount of energy stored in the outer layer, the center can rise 5 to 10°F or more. That can take your perfectly cooked prime rib roast to particle board before you know it. And the hotter the center, the less moisture.

Waxy fat! When a steak is hot, the fats are soft, sometimes even runny. They give the meat a rich unctuous mouthfeel and a lot of flavor. Let the meat cool and the fat starts to harden and get waxy.

Soft surface! While resting, the crust of a steak or chop gets soft and wet, especially on the side that is in contact with the plate or cutting board. Spice rubs get muddy. Adam Perry Lang is a classically trained chef, a partner with Mario Batali and Joe Bastianich in Carnevino in Las Vegas, a partner with Jamie Oliver in Barbecoa in London, and founder of Daisy May's BBQ in New York City. I asked him to weigh in on this. He points out that the juiciness sensation also depends a lot on the crust, especially its saltiness. "In the early crust stage (fresh off the grill), fat, collagen, and salt will cause a unique flood of saliva in your mouth. I refer to this type of crust stage as 'alive and snappy'. It is the type of crust that can cause you to eat clumps of fat and chewy sinew with joy that you would not normally eat. I am convinced it is another dimension, or the epitome of umami [savoriness]. It rarely comes the same way from a rested piece of meat. Finishing salt is also important for this juiciness sensation."

Rubbery skin. Hot chicken and turkey should have crispy skin. Rest it for 15 minutes or so, especially under foil, and it turns to rubber.

So resting cools the meat, softens the crust and skin, overcooks the center, muddies the spices and herbs, and reduces moisture of steaks and chops, and its impact on the perception of juiciness is probably nil.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#11 Post by Hokahey » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:19 pm

Hype wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:30 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:46 pm
kv wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:49 pm
You left out letting it sit for 5 minutes after you cooked it
For sure.
Not necessary! It's a myth!

https://amazingribs.com/more-technique- ... g-meat-are
Why I think resting is a mistake
But resting has other impacts, many detrimental.

Cold steak! Another important thing happens during resting: The meat gets cold. There's a reason the serving plates are hot in steakhouses. We like our meat hot. It will cool off fast enough, why give it a running start?

Overcooked meat! Another thing happens when the meat is resting: Carryover. Depending on the thickness and the amount of energy stored in the outer layer, the center can rise 5 to 10°F or more. That can take your perfectly cooked prime rib roast to particle board before you know it. And the hotter the center, the less moisture.

Waxy fat! When a steak is hot, the fats are soft, sometimes even runny. They give the meat a rich unctuous mouthfeel and a lot of flavor. Let the meat cool and the fat starts to harden and get waxy.

Soft surface! While resting, the crust of a steak or chop gets soft and wet, especially on the side that is in contact with the plate or cutting board. Spice rubs get muddy. Adam Perry Lang is a classically trained chef, a partner with Mario Batali and Joe Bastianich in Carnevino in Las Vegas, a partner with Jamie Oliver in Barbecoa in London, and founder of Daisy May's BBQ in New York City. I asked him to weigh in on this. He points out that the juiciness sensation also depends a lot on the crust, especially its saltiness. "In the early crust stage (fresh off the grill), fat, collagen, and salt will cause a unique flood of saliva in your mouth. I refer to this type of crust stage as 'alive and snappy'. It is the type of crust that can cause you to eat clumps of fat and chewy sinew with joy that you would not normally eat. I am convinced it is another dimension, or the epitome of umami [savoriness]. It rarely comes the same way from a rested piece of meat. Finishing salt is also important for this juiciness sensation."

Rubbery skin. Hot chicken and turkey should have crispy skin. Rest it for 15 minutes or so, especially under foil, and it turns to rubber.

So resting cools the meat, softens the crust and skin, overcooks the center, muddies the spices and herbs, and reduces moisture of steaks and chops, and its impact on the perception of juiciness is probably nil.
Disagree. FWIW, my ex-wife was a professionally educated french chef.

Resting is mandatory for the meat to relax and the juices to settle.

The fat should be softened during cooking to essentially melt in to the flesh.

If you're not factoring in that the meat will continue to cook after removing from the heat source then you're doing it wrong. Because cut or not, there will still be at least some carryover cooking.

The only argument I could possibly see against resting is temperature, but I also am a proponent of not serving much of anything piping hot.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#12 Post by Squee » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:45 pm

My stomach is growling reading this!

I bring to room temp, use cast iron, the butter at the end & rest steak as well.
Salting and peppering before searing is my mistake I guess.
Will try the dry-brine next time- thanks for the great tips.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#13 Post by Mescal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:31 pm

The steak should stand on it's own except salt+pepper+smoke.
[/quote]


Totally agree with this

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#14 Post by Mescal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:42 pm

Hoka, have you actually tried reversed sear?

Anyway, I have, and it works better for me!

So calling it bullshit is, well, bullshit

When you have a thick cut it's way easier to get the inside nice and evenly cooked.

Same with sous vide, why would it be a hype and trend? Might just be that it actually makes your steaks better. That’s why I want to try it, cause the proof of the pudding....

Anyway, though I'd ask this, cause you know, 'mericans and their steak.....

I'm gonna try this over the weekend. It might all ve bullshit but I won't know 'till I tried.


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Re: The Perfect Steak

#15 Post by Mescal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:43 pm

Mescal wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:42 pm
Hoka, have you actually tried reversed sear?

Anyway, I have, and it works better for me!

So calling it bullshit is, well, bullshit

When you have a thick cut it's way easier to get the inside nice and evenly cooked.

Same with sous vide, why would it be a hype and trend? Might just be that it actually makes your steaks better. That’s why I want to try it, cause the proof of the pudding....

Anyway, though I'd ask this, cause you know, 'mericans and their steak.....

I'm gonna try this over the weekend. It might all be bullshit but I won't know 'till I tried.


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Re: The Perfect Steak

#16 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:08 am

Why would you not use salt? How bizarre. Gordon does it well here.


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Re: The Perfect Steak

#17 Post by Hokahey » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:46 am

Mescal wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:42 pm
Hoka, have you actually tried reversed sear?

Anyway, I have, and it works better for me!

So calling it bullshit is, well, bullshit

When you have a thick cut it's way easier to get the inside nice and evenly cooked.

Same with sous vide, why would it be a hype and trend? Might just be that it actually makes your steaks better. That’s why I want to try it, cause the proof of the pudding....

Anyway, though I'd ask this, cause you know, 'mericans and their steak.....

I'm gonna try this over the weekend. It might all ve bullshit but I won't know 'till I tried.

I cook every single day. My ex wife would come home from culinary school and teach me what she learned every single day. I at times moonlight as a caterer for family/friends at their request. To be clear, I'm a bit of a foodie, though I dislike the term. I guess my point is that I'm not talking out of my ass.

But to answer your questions, yes I've tried those methods. When I say bullshit, I mean they do nothing to improve upon the basic tried and true method of properly cooking a steak.

That said, food is like art. Some things are subjective, like enjoyment of a finished product. And if the technique used to produce the end result is sound, then great. But if suddenly everyone I'd using a particular or new technique and I find no improvement, then that's where I say bullshit, and that it's being done just because it's trendy.

The reverse sear, in my opinion of course, brings absolutely nothing to the table. In fact, most people end up over cooking the food this way.

Now, if you're going to sous vide the steak, then a reverse sear is mandatory. But again, a deft touch is required.

Sous vide is like attempting to use a scientific cheat code on meat. I'll use it to poach an egg, but meat, especially steak, deserves an open flame, and not just to sear it after it's already cooked.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#18 Post by Hype » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:10 am

Bandit72 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:08 am
Why would you not use salt? How bizarre. Gordon does it well here.

No one said not to use salt. If you dry-brine, you're salting well ahead of time. For a thin steak, that could be 30 minutes, but with thick cuts they're like roasts, so you could do 24 hrs in advance. With dry brining, the salt penetrates the meat and helps retain moisture (because salt is hydrophilic). But because you use quite a bit of salt to brine, you don't need to add any more (and shouldn't). If you want to add flavouring for the cook, either get a salt-free rub, or don't dry-brine, but I stand by pre-salting.

Adding pepper after the cook's finished is best. You could use a rosemary-garlic butter in the pan at the end, too.
Hokahey wrote:Disagree. FWIW, my ex-wife was a professionally educated french chef.

Resting is mandatory for the meat to relax and the juices to settle.

The fat should be softened during cooking to essentially melt in to the flesh.

If you're not factoring in that the meat will continue to cook after removing from the heat source then you're doing it wrong. Because cut or not, there will still be at least some carryover cooking.

The only argument I could possibly see against resting is temperature, but I also am a proponent of not serving much of anything piping hot.
It's obviously controversial, but even French chefs believe myths. You're right that meat continues to rise in temp after the cook. You *should* factor that in. It's a little tricky to time the "rest" for a steak anyway, especially if it's thin, since even if you plate immediately, your eaters may not start eating for 5-10 minutes.

Fat doesn't melt into the flesh, by the way. That's another myth. If you slow-cook a brisket to 203 degrees, you'll render collagen and increase juiciness, but if you're cooking a steak to 130, you're not increasing juiciness by leaving the fat on unless you intentionally sear/render it off.

From experience, and from reading up, I think what I've said is technically correct, but I also think that BBQ isn't purely a science. The scientific aspects of it can help you decide how to proceed for a desired outcome, but after that it's all about tradition, happy accidents, etc. Stuffing and basting a turkey is also a myth -- neither one increases juiciness, and stuffing can actually make the bird cook unevenly. But I wouldn't tell anyone to change their turkey traditions. :wink:

I agree with pretty much everything else you've said. There are too many useless trends. And yeah, flip as often as you want! You just want that maillard reaction.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#19 Post by Artemis » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:27 pm

The perfect steak for me is when somebody else cooks it, like at a steak restaurant or prepared by a friend with grill skills. :lol:
I rarely make steak at home. On the occasion that I do, I use the simple method, sear both sides, finish in the oven and rest. I salt before cooking while meat comes to room temp.

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#20 Post by Mescal » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:18 am

Image

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#21 Post by Mescal » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:19 am

Image

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#22 Post by Mescal » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:22 am

Don't know what perfection tastes like, but it tasted quite well .

Just saying that the whole slow cooking does not not work.....

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#23 Post by Hype » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:09 am

Mescal wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:22 am
Don't know what perfection tastes like, but it tasted quite well .

Just saying that the whole slow cooking does not not work.....
Slow cooking a steak makes no sense unless you're trying to make brisket or pulled beef or... chili? :neutral:

How did you cook it?

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#24 Post by Mescal » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:18 am

Don't know if it makes sense or not, but then again, I'm not a Michelin star chef, so what would I know.

I prepared it like Heston said in his video....

24 (well 22) hours in the oven on 50 degrees Celsius.

Tasted delicious.... Perfect rare steak, and a very crispy outside.

Served it with Burrata and tomatoes, which is an excellent combination. A nice bottle of 100 % Mourvedre to accompany it.... Tasty meal for sure

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Re: The Perfect Steak

#25 Post by Hype » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:58 am

Mescal wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:18 am
Don't know if it makes sense or not, but then again, I'm not a Michelin star chef, so what would I know.

I prepared it like Heston said in his video....

24 (well 22) hours in the oven on 50 degrees Celsius.

Tasted delicious.... Perfect rare steak, and a very crispy outside.

Served it with Burrata and tomatoes, which is an excellent combination. A nice bottle of 100 % Mourvedre to accompany it.... Tasty meal for sure
Ah, I understand now. I pictured a "slow cook" the way you would do a smoked piece of meat on the grill. This way makes sense, I guess, as like a dry version of a sous-vide way to cook it evenly rare.

The only thing I'd be a bit worried about with this ultra-low temp method is that, at least as I understand it, meat should be raised above the temp where bacteria proliferate within an hour or two of the beginning of a cook. A bunch of places I can find suggest that doing Blumenthal's method may not be safe. But if you're an adult with no other health concerns, you can take a chance and probably be okay (just like you would with steak tartare). The searing stage may cook enough of the outside of the meat to kill off external bacteria and make it safe-ish. I'm not totally sure about this. I know the rules for sous-vide are similar and you do have to be careful.

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