Do you believe in other civilisations?

[Bandit72]

Originally I was going to put do you believe in other UFO's in the subject box but I thought I would broaden the spectrum a bit. I have one friend who doesn't believe that ALIENZ have contacted earth nor have we seen UFO's. But he does believe there is other life in the universe simply due to 'mathematics' and probability.

I feel the same however my argument to him was surely not everyone over the last 100 years or so of recorded 'sightings' is bullshitting and not everyone has doctored photographs or film. It's a strange one.

We were talking about the sightings and "size" of craft and why indeed "UFO's" would be so small considering the distance they would need to travel. I said we don't go round exploring in jumbo jets, most of our reconnaissance missions done these days are done with drones. His response was this

That's a valid point I suppose, but still far fetched being that sending a drone to 'check us out' wouldn't be very valuable to anyone as by the time the data was taken back to the Aliens, they or indeed their planet would be dead long ago thanks to being light years away.

When they sent it they wouldn't have been able to predict if there was even life on this planet. They certainly wouldn't know how advanced we might be. Especially since the distance means that by the time they make it here, earth will be much more advanced. Say they heard us testing nukes in the 50s, we might expect a couple of thousands of years to pass by before they reach us.

Now assuming they decided to send out some drone ships anyway, this would mean that they must be stable, capable, and concerned enough with the very long term. If this is the case, they might be concerned with proliferation of their technology.

Once they have scouted us, and sent information back, it would be thousands of years at least before a fleet, or exodus could reach us. You could imagine they would take extra precaution not to screw up thousands and thousands of years worth of work, planning, and effort than just appearing in the night sky, usually over the Southern US states to towns of hillbillies.

I think there is life out there, but I just don't think it's capable or interested in sending flying saucers to us.

For me to believe we are the only form of living existance in the universe is a bit hard to compute. What do Xiolians think? I don't know much about Roswell or supposed government cover ups but it's always an interesting point for debate.

[JOEinPHX]

For me to believe we are the only form of living existance in the universe is a bit hard to compute. What do Xiolians think?

i don't know. Go ask him.

http://www.xiola.org

[Larry B.]

Last year the truth came to me on this topic.

I used to be really into UFOs during my teens... I read a lot of books and magazines, saw the usual documentaries, looked up things on the Internet, went to bed scared because of the chance aliens might abduct me or full of hope that they would.

Then, I saw this documentary... I think it was from the British TV, but I can't recall the name at all.

UFOs are not from another planet. They are nothing but military aircrafts with some kick-ass technology. Long story short, the Nazis started it and the US 'took' the technology they were developing. Conspiracy theory says that some German engineers/scientists were taken into Area 51, which would make sense but I have no proof.

The first sighting happened in the US; there have been dozens of documented sightings in Area 51. The vast, vast, VAST majority of the reported abductions or close encounters of the third kind have been from Americans. What, do aliens like Americans better? Kinda like God does?

I wouldn't want to ramble on, but all the pieces fit perfectly and logically.

Regarding other civilizations... I think it's a mistake to imagine 'civilizations'. The universe and/or life is waaaaaay too broad to think that civilizations or societies are the only way to go.

[Kajicat]

As far as I'm concerned, there is just no way there isn't other intelligent life out there besides us. Space is too big. When you look at other galaxies and universes you can see there are other stars which could warm a planet and contain life like ours.

Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Ultra-Deep_Field

There is no way we're alone. We are just one tiny planet next to one burning star...out of a gazillion. The opening shot in the film Contact does an excellent job in depicting how miniscule we are in the grand scheme of things. As much as religious folk don't want to believe it, we are probably one of many clusters of space dust. Nothing special.

When it comes to us being visited by extraterrestrials, the whole, "Why would they travel this far/send a probe when by the time the probe gets back the info it contains shows the far past" can be countered by this: Parallel Dimensions. Maybe we are being visited but they aren't going by space travel, but by dimension hopping...? Maybe we aren't being visited by life from other planets but from life from another dimension. Or, everything people say they see is just super top secret military aircraft. Lots of theories that seem plausible.

[Bandit72]

For me to believe we are the only form of living existance in the universe is a bit hard to compute. What do Xiolians think?

i don't know. Go ask him.

http://www.xiola.org

Touché! AintNoRightians sounds BENT.

[Mescal]

As far as I'm concerned, there is just no way there isn't other intelligent life out there besides us.

Who says we are intelligent?

[Kajicat]

As far as I'm concerned, there is just no way there isn't other intelligent life out there besides us.

Who says we are intelligent?

Us. From what we've gathered, we are the most intelligent life that we know of. Of course, we may have the intelligence of a gnat compared to other beings we've yet to meet.

[guysmiley]

Look, I don't doubt life exists out there. But, I don't believe they have visited yet. Just like Hawkins said,

I think it would be a disaster. The extraterrestrials would probably be far in advance of us. The history of advanced races meeting more primitive people on this planet is not very happy, and they were the same species. I think we should keep our heads low.

They would wipe us out or enslave us most likely, if this were to happen.


Also, yeah, I've seen weird things flying in the sky before. That just makes it unexplained, not alien. My own family and I once saw some weird things flying around the night sky in Southern Nevada, but even then we knew it was military.

[CaseyContrarian]

Google Fermi Paradox.

Then, read this:
http://listosaur.com/science-a-technolo ... rials.html

[Pandemonium]

When I was in the aerospace industry, I worked 10 years on the so-called Skunk works program for a subcontractor for the big companies. I did see and work on a few prototype experimental aircraft in that time that to my knowledge never went into production (my mainstay was the Stealth Fighter and Bomber). Quite honestly, based on my clearly limited experience and knowledge, I don't think "secret military experimental aircraft" even begins to explain most so-called UFOs that have been seen by reliable witnesses even dating back to the end of WWII. And I'm far from some full tilt alien UFO Believer.

[Hype]

I think it's reasonable (that is to say, there are good [mathematical/statistical/probabilistic/metaphysical/nomological] reasons) to think that there may be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. We don't know enough about the physics and generally the logistics of biology in deep-space, long-term, travel, to know whether it's also possible for intelligent life to travel to us, or us to them. (It helps to remember that when we look out into space, we're looking back in time, and galaxies are expanding away from each other...)

[JOEinPHX]

For me to believe we are the only form of living existance in the universe is a bit hard to compute. What do Xiolians think?

i don't know. Go ask him.

http://www.xiola.org

Touché! AintNoRightians sounds BENT.

I say we call ourselves The Righteous

[Kajicat]

When I was in the aerospace industry, I worked 10 years on the so-called Skunk works program for a subcontractor for the big companies. I did see and work on a few prototype experimental aircraft in that time that to my knowledge never went into production (my mainstay was the Stealth Fighter and Bomber). Quite honestly, based on my clearly limited experience and knowledge, I don't think "secret military experimental aircraft" even begins to explain most so-called UFOs that have been seen by reliable witnesses even dating back to the end of WWII. And I'm far from some full tilt alien UFO Believer.

Dang, that sounds interesting. Seems like it must have been a really neat job.

[Hype]

UFOs that have been seen by reliable witnesses

[Pandemonium]

When I was in the aerospace industry, I worked 10 years on the so-called Skunk works program for a subcontractor for the big companies. I did see and work on a few prototype experimental aircraft in that time that to my knowledge never went into production (my mainstay was the Stealth Fighter and Bomber). Quite honestly, based on my clearly limited experience and knowledge, I don't think "secret military experimental aircraft" even begins to explain most so-called UFOs that have been seen by reliable witnesses even dating back to the end of WWII. And I'm far from some full tilt alien UFO Believer.

Dang, that sounds interesting. Seems like it must have been a really neat job.

I dunno about that. I'm probably lucky I haven't come down with some sort of cancer considering all the hazardous materials I was exposed to. I do know I have some very minor liver damage undoubtedly from using MEK solvents daily during those years.

[Larry B.]

UFOs that have been seen by reliable witnesses

I've seen UFOs

And have you seen this?



If that's a trick, that's a pretty neat trick. If it's not, it's some sweet human technology.

[kv]

it's a trick...they used the three different sightings to make it look real while in fact everyone was in on it

[crater]

I've seen UFOs

[Jasper]

Man, if you believe this shit I hope you come 'round when I open my combined used car and palm reading facility.

There is simply NO solid evidence of any kind of intelligent extra-terrestrial life visiting planet Earth. None.

Crater brought up Tyson, and to paraphrase something he said, "In the court of science, there is no lower form of evidence than eye-witness testimony."

Once again...

[CaseyContrarian]

Please just Google the Fermi Paradox.

[Kajicat]

Man, if you believe this shit I hope you come 'round when I open my combined used car and palm reading facility.

There is simply NO solid evidence of any kind of intelligent extra-terrestrial life visiting planet Earth. None.

Crater brought up Tyson, and to paraphrase something he said, "In the court of science, there is no lower form of evidence than eye-witness testimony."

Once again...

Ah HA! I have that book! This book was required reading in my paranormal psychology class in college. A very good read showing that logic rules over all. A great tool for turning people into skeptics. I love Sagan. Wish he was still around.

[Bandit72]

Man, if you believe this shit I hope you come 'round when I open my combined used car and palm reading facility.

There is simply NO solid evidence of any kind of intelligent extra-terrestrial life visiting planet Earth. None.

Crater brought up Tyson, and to paraphrase something he said, "In the court of science, there is no lower form of evidence than eye-witness testimony."

Once again...

You didn't answer the question.

[Jasper]

Science isn't religion. I believe in the possibility of other civilizations, but until I see hard evidence of them, I don't actively believe in them or not believe in them.

[Bandit72]

An 'agnostic' then?

Thing is if you go down the maths route, taking into consideration the size of what's around us, you'd have to sway more to the probability that there is. Just sayin'.

[Hype]

Bandit, you are almost right. The problem is that the probability as a discrete value isn't calculable. Attempts to do so are always sexed-up guesswork. The point that Jasper is making is simply that even if we said "It is less probable that we are the only intelligent life in the universe than that intelligent life is common", NOTHING follows about whether we've been "visited" or whatever.