Strays early version?

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janesbiggestfan
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Re: Strays early version?

#51 Post by janesbiggestfan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:33 am

Afer thinking about this for years I believe it boils down to Perry choosing to eject from the band. Not literally but his heart and his soul isnt in it. For all the talk of Dave mailing it in, he would be on fire and would give it all if Perry hasnt all but deserted being in a band with these guys. This doesnt only relate to separate planes with his "wife". The separate studion recording, separate writing, everything done as if they are business partners on rough terms and talking through lawyers.

I believe Jane's could enjoy a triuphant return even without Eric Avery (not denying his crucial influence and how the songs were based around his repetitive riffs) but they would have to be a real band again. This is the crucial thing... It could work with Flea, Martyn, Duff, hell it would even work with Sitek on bass or Cheney (if he was admitted as a real songwriting member) or even with Dave's tech Dan on bass..... I think even with the voice he has now, if his heart was in it they could have made it.... But you would have to extract his new mentality, his wife and his general state of mind from the picture.

The problem is Perry. He is not in a band anymore. The last time he was was during P4P. After that its just milking the cash cow. No spirit, no comraderie, no band dynamics. Just four guys trying to avoid each other as much as possible while doing festival gigs for easy cash. This was easily seen during NINJA Trent sessions, during Strays sessions, during the writing of TGEA. Perry isnt in a music band anymore. That is the one sentence answer for why Jane's is done. Perry is the reason why they arent fucking spending hundreds of hours working on new music. Fuck him.

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Re: Strays early version?

#52 Post by janesbiggestfan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:42 am

To add to the above, at this point I'm only hoping that Dave and Eric will record together in the future, albeit without PF.
If I have to be honest with myself for all of Perry's magic it was the music first and foremost that I loved about Jane's rather than Perrys voice (70 to 30 or 80 to 20 in terms of importance, is my rough estimate). Which basically means Eric's bass and Dave's guitar layered on top.
I love all music that has Daves guitar over Eric's bass, but I don't love all music that has Perry's vocals. This says enough for me.

Jesus, why am I returning to this board to miserate over this band. By now I think they brought more frustration to my life than joy :( Im stupid to keep doing this. Jane's is my life's lover who changed who she was and left me jilted and forever bitter.

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Re: Strays early version?

#53 Post by coffeepotman » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:59 am

My life's lover changed who she was and left me jilted and forever bitter and I'm not sure what to do about it, but that's another story

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Re: Strays early version?

#54 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:08 am

creep wrote:strays was way better than tgea. :tiphat:
Absolutely. Strays I actually listened to and had a few favourite tracks for a while. The other day, Wrong Girl came up on shuffle and I didn't skip it. Strays do has its moments.

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Re: Strays early version?

#55 Post by bman » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:37 am

janesbiggestfan wrote:Afer thinking about this for years I believe it boils down to Perry choosing to eject from the band. Not literally but his heart and his soul isnt in it. For all the talk of Dave mailing it in, he would be on fire and would give it all if Perry hasnt all but deserted being in a band with these guys. This doesnt only relate to separate planes with his "wife". The separate studion recording, separate writing, everything done as if they are business partners on rough terms and talking through lawyers.

I believe Jane's could enjoy a triuphant return even without Eric Avery (not denying his crucial influence and how the songs were based around his repetitive riffs) but they would have to be a real band again. This is the crucial thing... It could work with Flea, Martyn, Duff, hell it would even work with Sitek on bass or Cheney (if he was admitted as a real songwriting member) or even with Dave's tech Dan on bass..... I think even with the voice he has now, if his heart was in it they could have made it.... But you would have to extract his new mentality, his wife and his general state of mind from the picture.

The problem is Perry. He is not in a band anymore. The last time he was was during P4P. After that its just milking the cash cow. No spirit, no comraderie, no band dynamics. Just four guys trying to avoid each other as much as possible while doing festival gigs for easy cash. This was easily seen during NINJA Trent sessions, during Strays sessions, during the writing of TGEA. Perry isnt in a music band anymore. That is the one sentence answer for why Jane's is done. Perry is the reason why they arent fucking spending hundreds of hours working on new music. Fuck him.
I agree with this, except for the Strays part. They actually did all go in to the studio together as a band and actually wrote all those songs as a band. They came up with everything in the Studio rather than on the road but it still was a band effort. TGEA on the other hand was not a whole band effort unfortunately. I also agree with Eric when he said Perry's not serious about JA anymore. It's unfortunate because if Perry was 100% down with Janes they could make a great record again. He's just far too preoccupied with other projects/vacations, etc. If Perry, Dave, Stephen, and Chaney rented a house at the beach for a month and lived and worked together they could do it. That'll ABSOLUTELY never happen, but that's the way back for Janes.

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Re: Strays early version?

#56 Post by janesbiggestfan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:43 am

The saddest thing is that the supposed "other projects" that he is doing instead of JA are 100% horseshit. He did nothing worthy for decades now.

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Re: Strays early version?

#57 Post by Noonesshocking » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:11 am

The interesting thing is that Dave is FULLY aware of the shortcomings of strays and Tgea. I mean obviously he is somewhat fond of them, but more or less agrees that a lot of things were not a good as they could have been. This is a GREAT recent interview where he talks about both albums: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/intervi ... o_takeover
Q: Eric Avery was going to do the album but he declined and so you brought in Dave Sitek?

A: Yeah, that was also kind of a weird dynamic. Again, we did have our songs written in rehearsal before going in to record 'em. I think there's some things about that record that are f--kin' awesome that I'm so proud of and I think are milestones for this band. And then I think there are other things that are kinda like half-baked ideas.
Q: The music business is terrible.

A: Sometimes I take responsibility for that on my end of things. It was also a very new, weird way of recording for me.

Q: In what way?

A: Perry did most of his vocals at home in his own studio and a lot of the drums were tracked separately. Like we didn't play as a band. Put it that way and I can tell. I can tell when I listen to it. We're just not that band. I think if we had the opportunity to re-track it, it would be killer and probably be better but whatever. Still there's some cool s - t on there and for us anyway still stretched out in terms of our creativity. You know what I mean?
Definitely read the whole thing - it's one of the best interviews he's done in recent memory. Seems he was pretty soured on strays for a long time.

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Re: Strays early version?

#58 Post by farrellgirl99 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:45 am

Thanks for sharing, Drifter.

I've actually never listened to these so I'm interested to hear them. I got into Janes through Strays so I have a fondness for that record most don't. It is way better than TGEA, which I think I only listened to about 3 times.

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Re: Strays early version?

#59 Post by Mescal » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:45 pm

Larry B. wrote:
creep wrote:strays was way better than tgea. :tiphat:
Absolutely. Strays I actually listened to and had a few favourite tracks for a while. The other day, Wrong Girl came up on shuffle and I didn't skip it. Strays do has its moments.
Yeah, but wrong girl is not one of them

I really like Just Because (great single anybody could like) and Price I pay.

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Re: Strays early version?

#60 Post by CaseyContrarian » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:46 pm

autumnan wrote:This was a pretty interesting thread, although for me it just confirmed the worst. Again.

I seem to remember getting the Hyperleaked version and hadn't heard the Martyn demo versions until now.

With the exception of Martyn's tone and attack, it's all just 'Janes by numbers'. Bring the mood especially appears to be a blatant attemp to recreate Been Caught Stealing (the bass line is the best thing about it) and every other track just sounds like a musically lazy attempt to approximate their own sound. Dave's parts, not being built around the hypnotic clatter of an Avery riff, are left to tread a well worn rock road, his own musical cliches with Jane's cliches tacked on to try and recapture the brand.

What they really cannot capture though is the sense of a band. It all feels artificial and staged.

In a sense I think Ezrin was right to remould them as a straight rock band because they just didn't have any of that artfulness and anti-establishment friction. It may even be worse, as a Janes pastiche, than the more 'truthful' album that came out. When you remember that DN was a metal kid, reproducing someone else's parts with a license to solo (that's a bit unfair I know, but 2/3 of the truth), it makes sense that Strays was a better rock album than a Janes album. The passion in these demos is in Dave's hard riffin' and, when he's allowed, Martyn's response to the aggression in those riffs. Perry's input has none of the wide-eyed, acid fried wonder of his street poetic past and even Perk is phoning it in.

It just goes to show that a great band is all about its chemistry. Take one ingredient away and no matter how much you try to replicate what you had, you can never recapture the outcomes of the original formula. 1.0 is the 'true nature'.

Hey, wow, quality writing and music analysis on a message board! :thumb:

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Re: Strays early version?

#61 Post by Mescal » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:53 pm

janesbiggestfan wrote:To add to the above, at this point I'm only hoping that Dave and Eric will record together in the future, albeit without PF.
If I have to be honest with myself for all of Perry's magic it was the music first and foremost that I loved about Jane's rather than Perrys voice (70 to 30 or 80 to 20 in terms of importance, is my rough estimate). Which basically means Eric's bass and Dave's guitar layered on top.
I love all music that has Daves guitar over Eric's bass, but I don't love all music that has Perry's vocals. This says enough for me.

Jesus, why am I returning to this board to miserate over this band. By now I think they brought more frustration to my life than joy :( Im stupid to keep doing this. Jane's is my life's lover who changed who she was and left me jilted and forever bitter.
Well, I don't really know.

I listened to Iris (the Deconstruction song) a few days ago. And it's a great song, well, it could be a great song, it has a cool riff, a cool atmosphere, but it just misses that thing to make it really great. Perry singing on it could have made it really great.

So it's like somebody said before, they were the sum of the 4 parts (but having Perry as a frontman really made them special) That worked. Anything else obviously doesn't.

And they're like 60 now, so they're way past the 'we don't give a shit and will rock this fucker out' days. They will never make another Three Days, Up the beach, classic girl, ...

Why are we discussing this anyway? Everyone here likes Jane's 1.0 and hates everything they did/become after that.

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Re: Strays early version?

#62 Post by janesbiggestfan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:22 pm

Personally I only realized that they were done this very year, watching Perry's increasingly bizzare face changes and awful media outings in shitty no-ones-watching cooking shows and other niche shit on some shady website series. Even in 2014 I still believed that they would return. I personally prodded and pronged Perry multiple times to record new music and to get into studio etc, entered twitter and facebook exchanges with him etc. I guess I'm just lashing out at the sudden realization that my longtime friend is really dead. Something most people here accepted long ago it seems.

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Re: Strays early version?

#63 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:11 pm

Mescal wrote: I listened to Iris (the Deconstruction song) a few days ago. And it's a great song, well, it could be a great song, it has a cool riff, a cool atmosphere, but it just misses that thing to make it really great. Perry singing on it could have made it really great.
Did I ever send you this? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/236 ... Whores.mp3

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Re: Strays early version?

#64 Post by cricket_bows » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:48 pm

farrellgirl99 wrote:I got into Janes through Strays
This is really interesting and cool; it reminds me of a NPR piece I heard many years ago about a man who experienced each Beatles album as they were released, then watching his young daughter (seven years old? eight?) get into them, but completely out of chronological order, and applying her own meaning and feelings to them, obviously many decades removed from the times that fostered each record.

I'm curious FG, what did you think of NS and RdlH, since you started with the schlockiest of the three (four, if you count XXX)? Did you immediately think the earlier stuff was dramatically better, or did you need time for it to grow on you? Did it then change your perception/listening of Strays?

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Re: Strays early version?

#65 Post by Noonesshocking » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:01 pm

cricket_bows wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:I got into Janes through Strays
This is really interesting and cool; it reminds me of a NPR piece I heard many years ago about a man who experienced each Beatles album as they were released, then watching his young daughter (seven years old? eight?) get into them, but completely out of chronological order, and applying her own meaning and feelings to them, obviously many decades removed from the times that fostered each record.

I'm curious FG, what did you think of NS and RdlH, since you started with the schlockiest of the three (four, if you count XXX)? Did you immediately think the earlier stuff was dramatically better, or did you need time for it to grow on you? Did it then change your perception/listening of Strays?
Not to steal Farrellgirl99's thunder, but I had a similar experience. I was vaguely familiar with stop and jane says, but strays was the first jane's album I owned (came out when I was 13). I liked just because and true nature, but I could not shake the feeling that I was not listening the "real deal" based on the small material I already knew. Because of that, I decided to buy NS and Ritual.

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Re: Strays early version?

#66 Post by farrellgirl99 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:40 pm

Noonesshocking wrote:
cricket_bows wrote:
farrellgirl99 wrote:I got into Janes through Strays
This is really interesting and cool; it reminds me of a NPR piece I heard many years ago about a man who experienced each Beatles album as they were released, then watching his young daughter (seven years old? eight?) get into them, but completely out of chronological order, and applying her own meaning and feelings to them, obviously many decades removed from the times that fostered each record.

I'm curious FG, what did you think of NS and RdlH, since you started with the schlockiest of the three (four, if you count XXX)? Did you immediately think the earlier stuff was dramatically better, or did you need time for it to grow on you? Did it then change your perception/listening of Strays?
Not to steal Farrellgirl99's thunder, but I had a similar experience. I was vaguely familiar with stop and jane says, but strays was the first jane's album I owned (came out when I was 13). I liked just because and true nature, but I could not shake the feeling that I was not listening the "real deal" based on the small material I already knew. Because of that, I decided to buy NS and Ritual.
Ha, no thunder to steal! I think i was 12 when it came out so we were pretty close in age. I saw Just Because on tv and connected with that song immediately. I had liked punk music before that because of my older brother, but that was the first straight rock song I heard that really hit me.

I went through the albums in a really weird way. I heard Strays first, then I bought Rev to see if I would like the old stuff (keep in mind I was super into Perry so I started with his compilation cause I was a fan girl - this is also where my username comes from). Then I think I listened to porno for pyros (??? I could be wrong about that but I remember devouring those records on a vacation in 04) then Ritual then NS. I could be messing up the order, but I think that was it. I loved the older stuff immediately and kinda had my mind blown, but I still liked Strays. I probably played Strays 50 times before I heard their original stuff. I don't really remember how I felt but I think I just thought of strays JA and JA 1.0 as two different entities. I don't think I started to think Strays was bad until I came to the original ANR message board and everyone hated it :lol: But I still like atleast half the record.

This just makes me realize I can't remember the first time I heard NS or Ritual. Which is kinda weird cause NS is my favorite album. You'd think I'd have that memory. I do remember the first time I heard Porpoise Head though which makes me think I did listen to porno before janes.

Well, cricket, thanks for the trip down memory lane even though I can't remember anything :hs:

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Re: Strays early version?

#67 Post by creep » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:25 am

farrellgirl99 wrote: I think i was 12 when it came out
wow...it's crazy how long we have been talking about this dumb band. i started in 2002 with these boards. the boards were well established at that time. what year did xiola and erik's board start?

i was 20 when nothings shocking came out and you weren't born yet. :conf:

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Re: Strays early version?

#68 Post by bman » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:53 am

I think I first started hitting the boards in 2000. I can't remember which one. 1%? Whores?

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Re: Strays early version?

#69 Post by guysmiley » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:03 am

bman wrote:I think I first started hitting the boards in 2000. I can't remember which one. 1%? Whores?
Me too. Maybe 2001. First album I heard was Ritual on my way to San Fran to meet a girl. My roommate put it on. I was blown away. I didn't know what it was. I dove in like crazy after that. Then not too many years later, things ago strange and bad.

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Re: Strays early version?

#70 Post by bman » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:36 pm

I was a diehard at age 17 in 1990. The first time I posted on a website board was 2000 though. Maybe 2001. I remember my first board fight may have been with the 1% or Whores moderator. I felt that the 2001 Jubilee setlist was basically mailing it in b/c it was pretty much the same set as 97. The moderator disagreed. That started 15 years of Janes message board debates for me!

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Re: Strays early version?

#71 Post by kv » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:10 pm

Had to be Erik at 1%, whores would have never even cared

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Re: Strays early version?

#72 Post by Pandemonium » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:09 pm

I can't remember who's site it was but the first Janes-related board (it was more a website that people posted show reviews and comments) I posted on was during the Relapse tour in late '97. That was where I learned of the Beverly Hills mansion show that I tried to get in to that night.

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Re: Strays early version?

#73 Post by Larry B. » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:13 am

It was between 1998-2000 for me.

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Re: Strays early version?

#74 Post by JOEinPHX » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:41 am

1999, I came across xiola.org and saw the Rhimorse album up for download. I immediately emailed Dave Navarro at his spreadweb@aol.com email address and said something like "hey this asshole is giving away your album!" about 47 seconds after downloading it for myself and about 423 seconds after registering my very first email address.

I was a total n00b. He replied back like "it's fine" and I was all "omg Dave Navarro emailed me!" and I've hung out with the dude a few times since then and that email means all of nothing now except I remember putting sonny on blast, which is hilarious.

And i got all into pills and alcohol and got banned from every board for awhile but now like a million years later i can look back and kind of feel fondness for you guys even though i can't remember most of it now that the party days are over. *heart emoji*

Except for apparently shit talking Etty. Apparently Hoka says I did that and I am fine with that to this day. Because fuck her.

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Re: Strays early version?

#75 Post by bman » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:20 am

Lol! Yeah I remember that '97 site. What was that one? I was living in Prague at the time and fucking missed Relapse! But I'd go to this internet café run buy a bunch of hot Czech girls and read show reviews everyday. I also remember being banned by the Panic Channel site after the 03 demise.

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