Donald Trump running for President.

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Larry B.
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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#626 Post by Larry B. » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:55 pm

"When you're rich they think you really know."

That's what happens with Trump.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#627 Post by chaos » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:39 pm


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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#628 Post by chaos » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:44 pm

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... 1515870995

Ex-Obama defense official on Hawaii false alarm: 'Thank God the President was playing golf'
BY BRANDON CARTER - 01/13/18 02:15 PM EST

A former Defense Department official under former President Obama reacted to the false alert that a ballistic missile was headed toward Hawaii on Saturday by saying “thank God the President was playing golf.”

Patrick Granfield, a former strategic communications director at the Pentagon, posted the tweet after Hawaii officials declared the emergency alert was a false alarm.
Critics went after Trump for being at his Trump International Golf Course in Florida when the false alarm alert was sent out on Saturday.

The false alarm came amid heightened tensions between the U.S. and North Korea over Pyongyang's nuclear program and continued testing of ballistic missiles.

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) accused Trump of not taking the threat of North Korea's nuclear program seriously during a phone interview with CNN minutes after the false alarm.

Gabbard had posted a tweet saying that "there is no incoming missile to Hawaii” and adding she confirmed with officials that the alert, sent to mobile devices and televisions across Hawaii, was a false alarm.

U.S. Pacific Command spokesman Cmdr. David Benham said in a statement that the military "has detected no ballistic missile threat to Hawaii" and that an "earlier message was sent in error."

Another alert was sent out on Hawaii's emergency system 38 minutes later calling the initial alert a false alarm.


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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#629 Post by Artemis » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:00 am

Today's op-ed in The Guardian is one of the best summaries I've read of Trump's presidency thus far.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ?CMP=fb_gu


It is almost one year since Donald Trump was sworn in as the 45th US president. Will he last another 12 months? Day after tumultuous day since 20 January 2017, Trump has provided fresh evidence of his unfitness for America’s highest office.

It is not only that his politics and policies, from tax cuts and climate change to Palestine and nuclear weapons, are disastrously wrong-headed. It is not just that his idea of leadership is divisive, confrontational and irresponsible. Nor does the problem lie solely with his blatant racism, misogyny and chauvinism, though these are indeed massive problems.

His latest foul-mouthed outrage – describing developing countries as “shitholes” – is appalling even by his crude standards.

The fundamental failing underlying Trump’s presidency is his wilful ignorance. His frequently petulant, childish behaviour combines with a staggering lack of knowledge and contempt for facts to produce serial, chronic misjudgments. Trump, in power, cannot be trusted. He has been exposed as lacking in empathy, shamelessly mendacious, cynical and unversed or uninterested in the enduring human and constitutional values his office is sworn to uphold. Trump is the first and hopefully the last of his kind: an anti-American president. He is a disgrace and a danger to his country. The sooner he is sent packing, the better.

How much longer will Americans tolerate his embarrassing presence in the White House? His tenancy runs until November 2020, when he could seek a second term. But the problem is getting worse, not better. A series of scenarios, fuelled by his endlessly damaging, unacceptable words and actions, is beginning to unfold that could bring about his early departure.

The first and, democratically speaking, the most desirable scenario is that the electorate will simply reject Trump. This process is already well under way, if opinion polls are to be believed. Trump’s personal approval rating has averaged below 40% over the past year, a record for presidential unpopularity. More telling, perhaps, were the findings of a Pew Research Center poll last month that debunked the myth that Trump’s “base” – his core support – is impervious to his daily blundering. Trump’s backing among key groups that helped elect him – white men, Protestant evangelicals, the over-50s and the non-college educated – has fallen significantly across the board. At the same time, a Gallup survey found the number of voters redefining themselves as uncommitted “independents” rose to 42%.

Trump’s fading electoral appeal was cruelly exposed in shock defeats in Virginia and Alabama. Anger and disappointment with Trump among white voters was said to be a decisive factor, assisted by record turnout among African Americans. Nationally, evidence that the Trump rump is shredding is on the rise. A Monmouth University poll last August found that 61% of Trump voters said they could not think of anything he might do that would turn them against him. A poll last month put that figure at 37%. It is plain that many ordinary voters who trusted Trump to make a positive difference have been repelled and disgusted.

Pollsters and pundits are looking to November’s midterm congressional elections. Forecasts suggest a stunning repudiation of a “toxic” Trump, with the Alabama upset being replicated nationwide. The GOP could lose control of the House of Representatives, where large numbers of moderate Republicans are retiring, and its grip on the Senate may be loosened by an anti-Trump tsunami. No party since 1950 has hung on to the house in a midterm poll when the president’s approval was below 40%.

A humiliating nationwide slap in the face from voters this year, coupled with the loss of Congress, could bring Trump’s presidency shuddering to a halt, leaving him wounded, deserted by most Republicans and doomed to one-term ignominy. Meanwhile, another scenario prospectively leading to his political demise is playing out simultaneously. Nobody knows, as yet, whether the federal investigation into the Trump campaign’s alleged collusion with Russian agents in 2016 will ultimately irretrievably compromise the president himself. But claims that Trump conspired to obstruct justice by putting pressure on the FBI and firing its unbiddable director, James Comey, appear to have substance and are potentially fatal to his presidency. Robert Mueller, the special counsel, is proposing a formal interview under oath.

It’s not over yet. Supporters of Trump point to what they see as a string of successes. They cite a stock market that has added $7tn in value, 2m new jobs and radical tax reform. They credit Trump with defeating Islamic State (a vain boast) and reducing illegal immigration. The number of Americans saying the US economy is in “excellent shape” has jumped from 2% in November 2016 to 18%. About 48% say the economy is “good”, up 11% in the same period. By these measures, his trademark vow to “make America great again” may be beginning to work – and this is likely to slow the pace of desertions from his electoral base.

Elsewhere, conservatives will point to some significant triumphs that give the lie to the idea that Trump has been a hapless figure unable to bend America to his will. On many fronts, his administration is landing significant blows to the Obama-Clinton legacy. The environment secretary, Scott Pruitt, has effectively disembowelled the Environment Protection Agency, sacking scores of advisers and scientists. He is intent on scrapping many Obama-era regulations on water, climate, pollution and more. There has been a bonfire of environmental rules. New rules on chemicals previously declared toxic are being relaxed.

The president is busy appointing predominantly young, white male, conservative judges to federal appeal and district courts. While the supreme court hears only a handful of cases a year, it is in these lower courts where America’s settlement on issues of gender, race, work, relationships and much more is decided.

Meanwhile, the interior secretary, Ryan Zinke, is shrinking America’s national monuments. Part of the Obama-designated Bears Ears in Utah (1.3m acres) and the Clinton-designated Grand Staircase-Escalante (1.9m acres) will likely be opened up for mining and other industrial pursuits. (Trump was lobbied by the uranium mining company Energy Fuels to open up Bears Ears for its uranium rich deposits.)

Then there are the quiet revolutions under way by Betsy DeVos at the education department, while former presidential candidate Ben Carson, at the department of housing and urban development, is slashing government spending on affordable housing. And on and on. These are some of the wins that conservatives are happy to bank while tolerating the intolerable in the White House.

The overwhelming impression of Trump’s first 12 months is not of steady progress but chaos. Tantrums, tears and irrational rage dominate the reality TV scene inside the White House, according to Michael Wolff’s new book, Fire and Fury. On the national stage, Trump has displayed open bigotry over migrant and race issues. His lowest point, among numerous low points, was his implied support for white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Internationally, Trump made nuclear war with North Korea more likely, dismayed the entire world by rejecting the Paris climate accord, insulted and threatened the UN over Jerusalem, did his best to wreck the landmark 2015 treaty with Iran and did next to nothing to halt the terrible conflicts in Syria, Yemen, South Sudan and Afghanistan. Worse still, in a way, he has scorned US friends and allies in Europe and cosied up to authoritarian leaders in China, Russia and the Middle East. Britain has been treated with condescension and contempt, as in his abrupt (but welcome) cancellation of next month’s London visit.

Is this dysfunction evidence of an unhinged personality, as many people suggest? Rather than invoking the 25th amendment and dumping Trump, it would be better if he was held responsible for his actions. For his wilful ignorance, his dangerous lies and his unAmerican bigotry, Trump must be held to account. Perhaps 2018 will be the year.

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Larry B.
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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#630 Post by Larry B. » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:59 am

40% approval?

That's at least 35% too much. If he really has 40% approval, then Trump is just the tip of the iceberg.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#631 Post by kv » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:18 am

Well ya...but we knew that the day he was elected

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#632 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:10 am

Oprah Winfrey rules herself out of US presidential election
Wut? Seems like American politics is turning into a sideshow for the rich and famous to become even more rich and famous. Who next? Tom Cruise?

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#633 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:40 am

Image

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#634 Post by Eric B. » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:45 am

Bandit72 wrote:Who next? Tom Cruise?

I could see that happening for sure......or Denzel.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#635 Post by mockbee » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:33 pm

Hmmmmm.....
:conf:

I dont see how a politician beats trump in 2020.

System of checks and balances is a thread away from being non-existent, if not already dead.
:sad:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#636 Post by Matz » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:08 am

he's not running again, don't worry

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#637 Post by mockbee » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:36 am

Why because he's bored...? :noclue:

He's not going to be impeached.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#638 Post by Matz » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:27 pm

I think he's so narcissistic that he just wanted to win the presidency and get the ultimate ego dopamine trip and be a part of history and then forgot to think about that if he won he'd be in that very demanding job for 4 years. In an interview last year he talked about what a great life he had before becoming president and complained about how he now lives in a bubble and that he has to work really hard. :dunce: I think he longs for his old life. Plus he'll be 74 at that time, who runs for president at that age? The cheese burgers could well catch up with him also, no way his health is as good as that report that came out on it said

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#639 Post by Bandit72 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:11 am

Running again in 2020!

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#640 Post by Mescal » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:49 am

Matz wrote:I think he's so narcissistic that he just wanted to win the presidency and get the ultimate ego dopamine trip and be a part of history and then forgot to think about that if he won he'd be in that very demanding job for 4 years. In an interview last year he talked about what a great life he had before becoming president and complained about how he now lives in a bubble and that he has to work really hard. :dunce: I think he longs for his old life. Plus he'll be 74 at that time, who runs for president at that age? The cheese burgers could well catch up with him also, no way his health is as good as that report that came out on it said
This is kinda what I thought.

That he even didn't want to be elected at all. Hé just wanted to protect everyone wrong.

Then again, power is addictive

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#641 Post by SR » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:04 pm

This guy created major damage....serious attention needs to be paid him the next time around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Parscale

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#642 Post by Artemis » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:03 pm

Wow, this guy sounds like dumbass.
Former Trump Aide Says Mueller May Have “Something” on Trump
Sam Nunberg is refusing to cooperate with Robert Mueller’s investigation, but he’s doing interviews on cable television.

Former Trump campaign aide Sam Nunberg thinks special counsel Robert Mueller may have something on the president. But he still plans to refuse to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation.

In an interview on MSNBC, Nunberg said the questions he was asked by Mueller’s investigators make him think they may have “something” on the president. “I think that he may have done something during the election, but I don’t know that for sure,” Nunberg said. He also said that he thinks allegations that Trump colluded with Russia during the campaign are a “joke.”

Nunberg told the Washington Post Monday that he does not intend to comply with what he described as a subpoena to appear before Mueller’s grand jury on Friday. “Let him arrest me,” Nunberg told the paper. “Mr. Mueller should understand I am not going in on Friday.”

Nunberg kicked off the MSNBC interview by saying that Mueller’s demands are “absolutely ridiculous.” He said investigators are seeking all of his emails with Trump confidante Roger Stone and former campaign chief executive Steve Bannon. “Why should I hand them emails from November 1, 2015?” he asked.

Nunberg said it would take him 50 hours to go through all his emails. Later in the interview, he said it would take him 80 hours. Either way, he made one thing clear: “I’m not going to cooperate.”

Watch the full interview:



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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#643 Post by Hype » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:21 am

I think maybe the craziest thing about this entire situation has been how easily these "dumbasses" and "idiots" somehow manage to say out loud that they don't think they should have to abide by laws, norms, decency, etc., and they manage to get away with it... maybe not perfectly, but it's exposing the limits of the system in a way that seems frighteningly close to anarchy. The closest thing to this that I can remember, I guess, is Clinton's impeachment, which was pretty unbecoming, but now seems quaint.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#644 Post by SR » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:09 pm

The answer could lay in the dumbass populate in the form of anticipatory obedience. Cited as a principle warning sign of tyranny (in On Tyranny), Timothy Snyder uses Stanley milgrams’ experiment to test authority’s measure of persuasion where obedience is concerned. The subjects were both Yale students and new haven residents who were asked to apply electrical shocks to people not known to them that were not limited to lethal amounts. His experiment was an attempt to understand the mass compliance in nazi Germany but was disallowed entry. The stated goal of the experiment was to learn more on ‘learning’....lol. The results were so alarming he didn’t consider a test in Germany necessary. Apparently the subjects who didn’t continue the experiment to the lethal end never inquired about the welfare of those ‘studied’. The others didn’t have to. :lol:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#645 Post by Hype » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

SR wrote:The answer could lay in the dumbass populate in the form of anticipatory obedience. Cited as a principle warning sign of tyranny (in On Tyranny), Timothy Snyder uses Stanley milgrams’ experiment to test authority’s measure of persuasion where obedience is concerned. The subjects were both Yale students and new haven residents who were asked to apply electrical shocks to people not known to them that were not limited to lethal amounts. His experiment was an attempt to understand the mass compliance in nazi Germany but was disallowed entry. The stated goal of the experiment was to learn more on ‘learning’....lol. The results were so alarming he didn’t consider a test in Germany necessary. Apparently the subjects who didn’t continue the experiment to the lethal end never inquired about the welfare of those ‘studied’. The others didn’t have to. :lol:
One answer someone gave to me is simpler than this (there are some issues with Milgram, Stanford, etc.): there exist many people who vote Republican, but when you show them the actual Republican platform, they don't believe those are the real policies, and they continue to vote Republican, despite the fact that they are now literally informed, and understand that the Republican policies aren't things they agree with (e.g., medicare/medicaid cuts). Worse: Trump supporters appear to be those AND the complete opposite: there exist Trump voters who support policies they only imagine Trump will actually implement, whether or not these policies are insane, or even literally impossible, and worse, they believe Trump is doing things that they support, whether or not Trump actually does those things. That combination is so hard to comprehend, I think we all hoped that we just would never have to.

The foundations of liberal democracy take very seriously the irrationality and potential danger of the multitude, and safeguards were developed that were supposed to protect liberalizing and stabilizing institutions. Somehow, the authors of these foundations (Hobbes, Spinoza, Locke, Rousseau, etc) never seem to have conceived a world in which so many stupid people of so many different kinds could accidentally agree enough to elect someone as painfully stupid as Trump. :neutral:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#646 Post by Hype » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:10 pm

Hype wrote:
SR wrote:The answer could lay in the dumbass populate in the form of anticipatory obedience. Cited as a principle warning sign of tyranny (in On Tyranny), Timothy Snyder uses Stanley milgrams’ experiment to test authority’s measure of persuasion where obedience is concerned. The subjects were both Yale students and new haven residents who were asked to apply electrical shocks to people not known to them that were not limited to lethal amounts. His experiment was an attempt to understand the mass compliance in nazi Germany but was disallowed entry. The stated goal of the experiment was to learn more on ‘learning’....lol. The results were so alarming he didn’t consider a test in Germany necessary. Apparently the subjects who didn’t continue the experiment to the lethal end never inquired about the welfare of those ‘studied’. The others didn’t have to. :lol:
One answer someone gave to me is simpler than this (there are some issues with Milgram, Stanford, etc.): there exist many people who vote Republican, but when you show them the actual Republican platform, they don't believe those are the real policies, and they continue to vote Republican, despite the fact that they are now literally informed, and understand that the Republican policies aren't things they agree with (e.g., medicare/medicaid cuts). Worse: Trump supporters appear to be those AND the complete opposite: there exist Trump voters who support policies they only imagine Trump will actually implement, whether or not these policies are insane, or even literally impossible, and worse, they believe Trump is doing things that they support, whether or not Trump actually does those things. That combination is so hard to comprehend, I think we all hoped that we just would never have to.

The foundations of liberal democracy take very seriously the irrationality and potential danger of the multitude, and safeguards were developed that were supposed to protect liberalizing and stabilizing institutions. Somehow, the authors of these foundations (Hobbes, Spinoza, Locke, Rousseau, etc) never seem to have conceived a world in which so many stupid people of so many different kinds could accidentally agree enough to elect someone as painfully stupid as Trump. :neutral:
I was reminiscing this evening, and was reminded of the awareness we had that this was all happening, while it was happening, in the last few minutes of Obama's last Correspondent's Dinner speech:



And yet, no one did, or apparently could, do anything about it.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#647 Post by mockbee » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:51 pm

I'm not usually a big fan of David Brooks, but I think his notion on what's to come is tragically right on.



It's a scary time.
:noclue:

Image

The Chaos After Trump

nytimes

What happens to American politics after Donald Trump? Do we snap back to normal or do things spin ever more widely out of control?

The best indicator we have so far is the example of Italy since the reign of Silvio Berlusconi. And the main lesson there is that once the norms of acceptable behavior are violated and once the institutions of government are weakened, it is very hard to re-establish them. Instead, you get this cycle of ever more extreme behavior, as politicians compete to be the most radical outsider. The political center collapses, the normal left/right political categories cease to apply and you see the rise of strange new political groups that are crazier than anything you could have imagined before.

If America follows the Italian example, by 2025 we’ll look back at Trump nostalgically as some sort of beacon of relative normalcy. And by the way, if America follows the Italian example, Trump will never go away.

Silvio Berlusconi first came to power for the same reasons Trump and other populists have been coming to power around the world: Voters were disgusted by a governing elite that seemed corrupt and out of touch. They felt swamped by waves of immigrants, frustrated by economic stagnation and disgusted by the cultural values of the cosmopolitan urbanites.

In office, Berlusconi did nothing to address Italy’s core problems, but he did degrade public discourse with his speech, weaken the structures of government with his corruption and offend basic decency with his Bunga Bunga sex parties and his general priapic lewdness.

In short, Berlusconi, like Trump, did nothing to address the sources of public anger, but he did erase any restraints on the way it could be expressed.

This past weekend’s elections in Italy were dominated by parties that took many of Berlusconi’s excesses and turned them up a notch.

The big winner is the populist Five Star Movement, which was started by a comedian and is now led by a 31-year-old who had never held a full-time job. Another winner is the League, led by Matteo Salvini, which declined to effectively distance itself from one of its former candidates who went on a shooting rampage against African immigrants. Berlusconi, who vowed to expel 600,000 immigrants, is back and is now considered a moderating influence. The respectable center-left party, like center-left parties across Europe, collapsed.

Italy is now a poster child for the three big trends that are undermining democracies around the world:


First, the erasure of the informal norms of behavior. As Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt argue in “How Democracies Die,” democracies depend not just on formal constitutions but also on informal codes. You treat your opponents like legitimate adversaries, not illegitimate enemies. You tell the truth as best you can. You don’t make naked appeals to bigotry.

Berlusconi, like Trump, undermined those norms. And now Berlusconi’s rivals across the political spectrum have waged a campaign that was rife with conspiracy theories, misinformation and naked appeals to race.

Second, the loss of faith in the democratic system. As Yascha Mounk writes in his book “The People vs. Democracy,” faith in democratic regimes is declining with every new generation. Seventy-one percent of Europeans and North Americans born in the 1930s think it’s essential to live in a democracy, but only 29 percent of people born in the 1980s think that. In the U.S., nearly a quarter of millennials think democracy is a bad way to run a country. Nearly half would like a strongman leader. One in six Americans of all ages supports military rule.

In the Italian campaign, we see the practical results of that kind of attitude. Voters are no longer particularly bothered if a politician shows dictatorial tendencies. As one voter told Jason Horowitz of The Times: “Salvini is a good man. I like him because he puts Italians first. And I guess he’s a fascist, too. What can you do?”

Third, the deterioration of debate caused by social media. At the dawn of the internet, people hoped free communication would lead to an epoch of peace, understanding and democratic communication. Instead, we’re seeing polarization, alternative information universes and the rise of autocracy.

In Italy, the Five Star Movement began not so much as a party but as an online decision-making platform. It pretends to use the internet to create unmediated democracy, but as La Stampa’s journalist Jacopo Iacoboni told David Broder of Jacobin: “In reality, the members have no real power. In reality, there is not any real direct democracy within M5S, but a totally top-down orchestration of the movement.”

In Italy, as with Trump and his Facebook campaign, the social media platform seems decentralizing, but it actually buttresses authoritarian ends.

The underlying message is clear. As Mounk has argued, the populist wave is still rising. The younger generations are more radical, on left and right. The rising political tendencies combine lavish spending from the left with racially charged immigrant restrictions from the right.

Vladimir Putin’s admirers are surging. The center is still hollowing out. Nothing is inevitable in life, but liberal democracy clearly ain’t going to automatically fix itself.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#648 Post by mockbee » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:08 pm

I think the biggest mistake that liberals, and the truly alarmed, out there make, and we make it often, is treating Trump as a singularity.
Like getting rid of him would get rid of the problem. Maybe briefly it would but he is just a nasty symptom of a huge disease.
I think that to truly address the malaise is to take a serious reconsideration of capitalism itself.

I think the people are ready for it, it's why Sanders and Trump did so well to begin with. Then Trump went all super capitalist like anyone with a brain knew he would.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#649 Post by clickie » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:08 pm

The guy made himself sound kind of dumb at the end when he said "liberal democracy clearly ain't going to automatically fix itself".

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#650 Post by SR » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:15 am

Hype wrote:
Hype wrote:
SR wrote:The answer could lay in the dumbass populate in the form of anticipatory obedience. Cited as a principle warning sign of tyranny (in On Tyranny), Timothy Snyder uses Stanley milgrams’ experiment to test authority’s measure of persuasion where obedience is concerned. The subjects were both Yale students and new haven residents who were asked to apply electrical shocks to people not known to them that were not limited to lethal amounts. His experiment was an attempt to understand the mass compliance in nazi Germany but was disallowed entry. The stated goal of the experiment was to learn more on ‘learning’....lol. The results were so alarming he didn’t consider a test in Germany necessary. Apparently the subjects who didn’t continue the experiment to the lethal end never inquired about the welfare of those ‘studied’. The others didn’t have to. :lol:
One answer someone gave to me is simpler than this (there are some issues with Milgram, Stanford, etc.): there exist many people who vote Republican, but when you show them the actual Republican platform, they don't believe those are the real policies, and they continue to vote Republican, despite the fact that they are now literally informed, and understand that the Republican policies aren't things they agree with (e.g., medicare/medicaid cuts). Worse: Trump supporters appear to be those AND the complete opposite: there exist Trump voters who support policies they only imagine Trump will actually implement, whether or not these policies are insane, or even literally impossible, and worse, they believe Trump is doing things that they support, whether or not Trump actually does those things. That combination is so hard to comprehend, I think we all hoped that we just would never have to.

The foundations of liberal democracy take very seriously the irrationality and potential danger of the multitude, and safeguards were developed that were supposed to protect liberalizing and stabilizing institutions. Somehow, the authors of these foundations (Hobbes, Spinoza, Locke, Rousseau, etc) never seem to have conceived a world in which so many stupid people of so many different kinds could accidentally agree enough to elect someone as painfully stupid as Trump. :neutral:
I was reminiscing this evening, and was reminded of the awareness we had that this was all happening, while it was happening, in the last few minutes of Obama's last Correspondent's Dinner speech:



And yet, no one did, or apparently could, do anything about it.
my response was directed to your observation about the administration's ability to lie, cheat, and cross all lines of civil and ethical decency unscathed. But I agree with your assessment of the confluence of stupid. Many, but not all, of the electorate eagerly believed multiple promises by trump that were self contradictory.....lower taxes for everyone, increase in medicare/medicaid/ss, elimination of debt, etc. It was as logical as if he offered a steak....grilled it for barons dinner, then ground it the next day for his burger, then returned it to the barn to sire another calf. Combined with the DNCS corruption to iso Bernie and Russian involvement and we are where we are

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