Politics

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drwintercreeper
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Re: Politics

#221 Post by drwintercreeper » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:34 pm

Not surprised. The handover of security responsibilities was supposed to happen in 2014 and then seemed to be pushed back again and again.

When Biden announced the withdrawal, I thought it was bad but now I am not sure. To wash our hands of it is what most folks want. We have different capabilities to keep the homeland safe than we had in 2001. Nation-building is incredibly difficult as is, and in this case the odds were impossible. The place is poor as fuck; the culture is alien to most Americans. Women’s rights is nice—how about raping boys? Because that shit is fucking rampant over there. So our tax dollars went to supporting that, too, in addition to enriching a bunch of corrupt fucks. We did some good and helped build their civil society. We killed a bunch of people. We kept the homeland free of more attacks. We did all those things and much more. But that isn’t and shouldn’t be why we go to and remain at war and nation-build… particularly when so many things make it doomed to fail. What we could not do is prevent 300000 ‘security forces’ from seeing this enterprise as not being worth fighting the taliban for.

Folks should check out the doc ‘restrepo’… it shows the absurdity of it all. We repeated parts of vietnam that the media glosses over in their bullshit—namely, fighting and dying for hills only to give them up. It is all so utterly pointless.

This was always going to be the outcome, whether 2005, 2014, 2021 or 2030. I would not send my kid to fight for that govt’s survival. All the monday morning quarterbacks in the media should consider whether they would in all of their commentaries.

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Re: Politics

#222 Post by Hokahey » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:57 pm

I'm just in disbelief that after all this time the Taliban remained strong enough, and the government weak enough, for this to even happen.

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kv
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Re: Politics

#223 Post by kv » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:56 pm

thank fuck we are getting out...finally the inevitable happens

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chaos
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Re: Politics

#224 Post by chaos » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:07 am

Pandemonium wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:18 pm
So who is surprised Afghanistan is going to hell so quickly?

What a waste of 2 decades, thousands of lives, trillions of dollars and untold resources.
Not surprised. The Taliban has been biding its time. I thought the deal brokered/signed with Pompeo back in Feb 2020 was worrisome. The guy who signed on behalf of the Taliban, Abdul Ghani Baradar, was released from prison in 2018 at the request of the United States. (Pompeo also met with Baradar in November 2020 after the election, but this meeting didn't get much attention.) It is likely Baradar will become the next President of Afghanistan.

This mess has gotten progressively worse over two decades, with contributions from four US administrations (2 Republican and 2 Democratic). The official public vs private statements regarding the progress (or lack thereof) in Afghanistan are dramatically different.

For those interested in some background, The Washington Post has recently reprinted excerpts from a lengthy investigative piece from 2019. Here is a link to Part One: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... documents/

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mockbee
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Re: Politics

#225 Post by mockbee » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:46 am

what a disastrous 20 years....

Maybe this won't be what biden is remembered for, the jury is out on that...and not looking good so far.. :scared: , but it certainly doesn't help that he is just one more idiot in a long line of buffoons.... :no: :drink:

And Blinken.... could there be a worse name for our top diplomat.... :conf: :hehe: :bored:
On July 8, the president defended his decision to withdraw all remaining U.S. forces from Afghanistan. After assuring Americans that “the drawdown is proceeding in a secure and orderly way” and that “U.S. support for the people of Afghanistan will endure,” he took some questions. Here are excerpts from the White House transcript.

Q: Is a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable?

The president: No, it is not.

Q: Why?

The president: Because you — the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable. …

Q: Do you see any parallels between this withdrawal and what happened in Vietnam, with some people feeling ——

The president: None whatsoever. Zero … The Taliban is not the South — the North Vietnamese Army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy. …

Q: Mr. President, how serious was the corruption among the Afghanistan government to this mission failing there?

The president: Well, first of all, the mission hasn’t failed, yet. There is in Afghanistan — in all parties, there’s been corruption. The question is, can there be an agreement on unity of purpose? … That — the jury is still out. But the likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely.

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kv
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Re: Politics

#226 Post by kv » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:56 am

Oh it wasn't a disaster guys, don't worry...lots of guys got hella rich!...it wasn't all for not... :jasper:


My thoughts just go to what will those same people be doing now to make the bread

That's what scares me...

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kv
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Re: Politics

#227 Post by kv » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:00 am

And ya 20+ years...and it boiled down to Obama freed their new leader and trump freed thousands and made "peace"....our kids went over there and killed....we all own that fucking mess..party aside the US owns it....let's bury that shit asap, thank fuck

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mockbee
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Re: Politics

#228 Post by mockbee » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:18 am

yeah, I really do hope that leadership of all stripes and public concludes this was an all around colossal failure.

The first thing to unite us all in a long, long while! :rockon:

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mockbee
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Re: Politics

#229 Post by mockbee » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:05 pm

At the same time, heart goes out to all the veterans and the families who lost loved ones. :tiphat: :nyrexall:

Family member works for the VA, got this note from the VHA Chief of Staff:

August 16, 2021


Teammates,


As a post 9/11 Veteran, I would like to speak directly to those of you who served in Afghanistan and are watching recent developments in that region you all know too well. You did the job your country asked of you and we at VA are proud of your sacrifice and your service. But the news over the weekend was tough to watch. And for some, it has been even tougher to process. We are already hearing from our VA medical facilities across the country that calls and visits from Veterans emotionally impacted by the events in Afghanistan are increasing.

This news comes during a surge in COVID-19 breakthrough cases due to the Delta variant, adding to stress levels and feelings of burnout among our employees – perhaps especially our Veteran employees. Please remember VA is here for you, and for all Veterans. We have the Employee Assistance Program and I urge you to take advantage of this resources.

If you are a Veteran or know of a Veteran who is having a hard time, VA has a variety of resources and tools you can use or share:

VHA mental health services, including how family members can assist a Veteran in crisis
Veterans Crisis Line: Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255 press 1
Finding local mental health services and resources: Resources | Videos & Info for Military Veterans | Make the Connection
Information on how to access immediate care and/or book a mental health appointment: VA Mental Health Services | Veterans Affairs
Vet Center resources are also available and include counseling, there is also a toll-free number: 877-WAR-VETS

As we continue to hear more about the events in Afghanistan and in the lead up to the 20th anniversary of 9/11, we anticipate a continued surge in demand for mental health services. We are preparing additional resources to help Veterans and VHA staff alike who are struggling with mental health, stress or burnout and we will be distributing them broadly. We are also encouraging Veterans to check in with their fellow Veterans via Buddy Check. For more information and resources associated with Buddy Check, please check with your local Veterans Service Organizations as many of them sponsor this program.

Please remember your service to our country matters, and you should remain proud of your sacrifice. If for whatever reason you have difficulty or hesitation in seeking any of the VHA resources noted above, or feel like you have no place to turn, please reach out to me directly. Let’s all take care of each other.


Thank you all for you do for Veterans!



- Jon M. Jensen

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kv
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Re: Politics

#230 Post by kv » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:48 pm

Oof

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Pandemonium
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Re: Politics

#231 Post by Pandemonium » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:11 pm

One thing Biden owns is how this is going down.

Watching video of hundreds of Afghans chasing and clinging to C-17 Globemasters taxing down runways with some falling off the plane thousands of feet in the air is just sickening.

We (The USA) promised the thousands of Afghans that helped our guys in that country that we would take care of them and their families when the time came for the draw-down. There was plenty of time to quietly pull many of these people out of the country. Not only that, weeks ago when the draw-down was announced, the US basically and abruptly stopped servicing and supporting the Afghan military. That the Taliban so quickly and easily took back their country is an indictment of yet another massive failure of US “intelligence” who supposedly told Biden the Afghans could hold off the Taliban for several months.

Yeah, at some point (and it has been nearly 2 decades) that Afghans would have to stand up for themselves, something clearly they are not up to task, but we should have at least kept our promise to the people who risked all to help us.

Image

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Bandit72
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Re: Politics

#232 Post by Bandit72 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:44 am

Anyone who thinks the Taliban have "changed" in the last 20 years are completely insane.

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chaos
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Re: Politics

#233 Post by chaos » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:21 am

A condensed summation of the last 20 years in Afghanistan (10-15 minute read):
The 20 Years’ War: America in Afghanistan
Strategic blunders by each administration virtually assure that the future of Afghanistan will reflect the interests of the Taliban, not the United States.
Paul Miller Jul 12
https://thedispatch.com/p/the-20-years- ... rc=nl_fix

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Artemis
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Re: Politics

#234 Post by Artemis » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:13 pm

After a gruelling 36 day campaign, it's election day in Canada. The polls just closed in the east coast.

Will JT get re-elected with a Liberal Majority??

https://globalnews.ca/news/8164886/live ... -election/

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